Thug life: Benoit vs. Vick
July 19, 2007 at 12:18 pm by Andisheh Nouraee in NewsQuarterback Michael Vick allegedly killed and maimed dogs.
Wrestler Chris Benoit killed his family.
One of them is routinely called a thug.
One of them is not.
All I’m doing is saying.
July 19th, 2007 at 1:20 pm
I don’t know what you’re talking about…I just found this lovely craigslist post about Vick today:
http://atlanta.craigslist.org/rnr/376304027.html
July 19th, 2007 at 2:08 pm
One is also dead so it’s not really the same thing. Can’t really argue with the wrestling federation to kick him out since he’s no longer living…
July 19th, 2007 at 2:17 pm
You’re missing the point brig. What Andy’s saying – if I may be so bold – is that both of these dudes allegedly did some bad shit. But only one is being called a thug, ostensibly because thug has become a synonym for “black guy I don’t like.” While I am very angry about the Vick charges – I love me some dogs and can’t stand the idea of mistreating or killing them – he didn’t kill his wife and child. Benoit did. That’s some thuggish shit.
July 19th, 2007 at 3:35 pm
All I’m doing is agreeing with Andyshnu.
July 19th, 2007 at 3:50 pm
Okay, Hip Hop 101, attention class.
It was the black dudes in the Hip Hop community who coined the phrase “thug life” and made it a common descriptor of black men who dress and act in certain ways. Like selling drugs, gang membership or something like breeding, selling and betting on fighting dogs.
For evidence of that, look at the lyrics and titles of rap albums.
Vick is called a thug because he embraces the “thug” life. He flips birds at the people who pay him $6 million a year and tries to get through airport security with drug paraphernalia. He also hangs around other “thugs”, like his brother, Marcus.
“All I’m doing is saying” …. that you don’t know your ass from a hole in the ground when it comes to racism and Hip Hop culture.
Give me a break. trying to find a race angle to this is ridiculous.
July 19th, 2007 at 4:07 pm
From the “thug” link above –
From the Oxford English Dictionary – the adjective thugged out:
“Resembling a thug in dress or behaviour, tough-looking. In extended use, as a term of approval: tough, hardened, or dispassionate.”
July 19th, 2007 at 4:18 pm
Dear Mr. all-knowing hip hop expert guy,
First, thank you for helping to make my point. Mike Vick didn’t make an album glorifying “thug life,” he hasn’t gotten into to any violent confrontations with gangsters, criminals or the police, and he didn’t choose his brother nor is he responsible for his brother’s problems. Yet you say he embraces the “thug” life. And look at your evidence: he shot a bird and smoked some weed. That means I was one hell of a thug in high school and I’m guessing you were too. By your definition, Al Gore’s son is one hell of a thug. Two drug arrests…that kid is super thuggish.
My point, and Andy’s too, is that pundits (and you apparently) are all too quick to throw thug around because it has become white code for “that kind” of black man. It’s just another way of saying blacks are inferior. Vick may be a criminal and if so, he should be in jail. But he’s not a thug. A thug is a thief or assassin. A thug is some demented wrestler who kills his family. But instead of calling him a thug, the AJC puts up a guest book for people to sign telling him how much they’ll miss him. HE KILLED HIS FAMILY, for God’s sake.
July 19th, 2007 at 6:30 pm
Ignoring that you have engaged in the very prejudice decried by this article when you say “pundits (and you apparently) are all too quick to throw thug around because it has become white code for “that kind†of black man. It’s just another way of saying blacks are inferior. ” You don’t know me nor my beliefs, which makes your statement prejudiced.
I made no judgment, I explained definitions and the origin of the term “thug” and “thug life” which, from the comments, probably needed explaining. You respond by accusing me of “white code”. I don’t use code, I say what I mean. If I want to call some one a redneck, nigger, asshole or bastard, I will use that word.
I am not defending Benoit, but the angle here is racism in the difference in Vick’s treatment. I personally think it is crap to say that calling Vick a “thug” is racist, when it is, BY DEFINITON, true.
I never said Vick made an album or was a violent criminal. I was elaborating on the theme that a portion of black culture has popularized the term and grown it from the original meaning espoused by Tupac. I said the Hip Hop community popularized a term and it has been applied to people who look, act or dress a certain way. Try reading the dictionary I referenced above. Al Gore’s kid is an idiot who makes bad choices (like his father) and a criminal, but he is not “tough, hardened, or dispassionate.— is he?
Regarding my evidence, are you just going to ignore the estate he owns that was filled with fighting dogs? We’re talking evidence, not conviction, so we can dispense with the innocent until proven guilty. Un-convicted does not mean innocent.
I mentioned the “bird flip” because it demonstrates Vick’s “tough, hardened, or dispassionate.†view of the fans who have made him a multi-millionaire by purchasing his shoes, jerseys and game tickets. Trying to go through security with drug paraphernalia only adds “stupid” to that list.
Vick has broken laws before, that makes him a criminal and an idiot, but not a thug. His other behavior (clothes, appearance, actions, friends) does.
Regarding evidence, I believe I referenced the dog fighting and, yes, believe it or not, possessing marijuana and drug paraphernalia is a crime. He also knowingly exposed a woman (and how many others? ) to herpes, for which he settled out of court. “Settled out of court” normally means, “I am guilty and want to stop this right now”. THUG.
I mention his brother because of the definition of “thugged out” in the article LINKED in this blog. I should have also mentioned his co-defendants who appear to have embraced the “thug life”. He dresses, behaves and acts in that manner for a reason. I have seen him with my own eyes around people who fit the definition of “thugged out”, as did he at the time. “Thug” is not criminal and I don’t consider it criminal or evidence of crime.
I have not defended Benoit, nor will I. He was a twisted and evil person. The AJC is reflective of it’s idiot subscribers who named a Moroccan restaurant the “Best Indian Food” in town. The AJC is stupid, but I am not willing to call them racist.
You define thug however you want, hip hop culture and the Oxford English Dictionary (THE authority on word meanings) have expanded the definition. Your definition is incomplete and not reflective of the people that are the subjects of this thread, although it may be more convenient for your world view. I don’t know you, so that is a guess
July 19th, 2007 at 6:34 pm
Chris Benoit’s steroid use may have been a factor in his child being born with the form of autism known as Fragile X Syndrome… which is why Benoit killed him, some say.. Some researchers believe the huge increase in the number of autistic children could be linked to steroid use.
On the subject of Vick’s indictment for dog-fighting, I’m reminded of the little girl who was walking her dog down the street. An old lady said, “Oh, that’s the cutest little dog I’ve ever seen honey. What’s his name?”
“Porky,” the little girl said.
“Do you call him Porky because he’s so fat?” the old lady asked.
“No, ma’am,” the little girl said. “We call him Porky ’cause he fucks pigs.”
July 19th, 2007 at 9:06 pm
I’m certainly persuaded Dale. I mean, when Boortz and his ilk call Vick a thug, they are probably sitting there with a dictionary open beside a picture of Tupac and a list of known Vick associates. How could i be so naive.
You can refuse to acknowledge that racial stereotyping plays a large role in Vick being called a thug all night but it doesn’t change the fact that it’s happening. By the way, if you’re intent on picking nits, the definition you reference is for “thugged out,” not “thug.” Stop stretching.
Oh and your connection between bird flipping and “tough, hardened and dispassionate” is flimsy, to put it generously. You must live in a mystical world of polite people (where you can call people nigger when it suits you), if you can casually suggest the simple act of flipping the bird someone turns someone tough and dispassionate.
This started with the simple observation that everyone is far more comfortable calling Vick a thug than someone who assassinates his family. I think it’s wrong.
July 19th, 2007 at 9:08 pm
Oh, and you’re a douchebag.
July 19th, 2007 at 11:02 pm
Vick’s history is well known, no one needs a list. BTW, did you know that one of his co-defendants list his home address as Vick’s house? This would be the guy who stole a Rolex while walking through the Atlanta airport with Vick.
I would not doubt that Boortz DOES know the definiton of the word. He’s a gasbag, but he is smart.
And you can go on denying that he fits the definition of the word, but that won’t change the dictionary, song lyrics and his actions.
You’re right, “thug” and “thugged out” are not even remotely connected. Forgive my stretching. Just like “idiot” and “idiocy” aren’t connected. Like posting that my definiton was a stretch becaseu it was for “thugged out” an dnot “thug” when I clearly said it was for “thugged out”. Nice picking of the nit there, Mr T.
A person flipping the bird to the very people who fuel his mulit-million dolalr income is, to me, an example of the text book definition of “thug”. We disagree.
You say a thug is a ” thief or assasin”. You are partially correct. In addition to the 200 year old original meaning from India other dictionaries list “a violent, brutal person”, “A cutthroat or ruffian; a hoodlum.” Vick has demonstrated he is a few of those things.
Words mean things, usually pretty specifically. Open a dictionary and you might learn somethng.
I live in town, two blocks off Ponce and it is a mystical world. The hookers on the corner outside my building and the crackheads in the alley are more nightmarish than mystical. Again, you don’t know anything about me so you may want to stop making assumptions which demonstrate your prejudice and ignorance. I don’t call people nigger, becasue it is a foul and demeaning word. That and I know about ten others that better my derision for some people. My point was that I don’t use code. You missed my other points, so I guess I should expect you to miss that one too.
You are correct, this DID start out as an observation that people are comfortable calling Vick a thug and not Benoit. You made this thread about race in your very first post, not me.You’re right, it is far worse to call Vick a thug than Benoit a multiple murderer. That is what Benoit is called now. That is because they have both demonstrated, through their own actions, to be what they are called today.
Oooh, name calling….the sure sign of an intellectual. I’m impressed. There are people here would not disagree with your assessment of me. That doesn’t make me factually wrong, but I bet you won’t let things like facts and definitions of words cloud your view of the world.
July 20th, 2007 at 7:48 am
Just answer one question, Dale of the enlightened intown dwellers: Putting yourself aside (hoping to not continue to get this argument sidetracked by questioning your intimate knowledge of thug etymology…my bad), are certain members of the media, and therefore many of the people that listen/read/watch them, using the word thug too liberally to describe black rappers, entertainers or athletes that run afoul of social norms or the law? Or is your contention that they are asking for it by their behavoir, dress and associations?
Follow up: Are these same media types using that same approach to white rappers/entertainers/athletes who commit similar acts?
I still think you’re a douchebag but I am stung by your oh so original rebuke, invoking the “sure sign of an intellectual” rebuttal. It hurts, Dale. It hurts.
July 20th, 2007 at 11:36 am
I am not sure about who uss a word to liberally, that is a matter of opinion.
If a person dresses, acts and behaves a certain way, they will be labelled with the term to describe them, whether they are thugs, rednecks, Steelers fans, Klansmen or whatever. We associate ourselves freely with our identity groups and should not be surprised when others label us from those associations.
When it comes to white people and black people getting the same label, that is a matter of opinion of which I don’t notice and don’t care. I think idiots are idiots no matter their race.
My whole point was that trying to find a race angle to this is pretty silly. One guy is called a multiple murder, which he is, and the other guy is called a thug, which he is. Idiots on both sides will excuse their behavior, like the AJC guestbook you refer and Clinton Portis statements about Vick.
Think whatever you want about me, I don’t care. I don’t do a lot of name calling because it is a sign to me that emotion has overtaken intellect and the people I really respect don’t do it.