Profile: D.L. Foster, pastor (plus podcast)
November 15, 2007 at 5:45 am by Tammy Vinson in Profile- Editor’s note: A special treat for you! This week’s profilee, Pastor D.L. Foster, was kind enough to stop by our office for a podcast interview. CL Online Producer Alejandro Leal recorded the interview and edited it with the author of the profile, Tammy Vinson.
(Photo by Joeff Davis)
Pastor D.L. Foster ministers at Forest Park’s Praise Power Ministries, where he counsels people struggling with their sexuality. He credits Christ with turning him away from homosexuality, “reactivating†his feelings for women and helping him find his wife.
Foster is often labeled as “ex-gay,†but he prefers to use biblical terms such as “transformed†or “healed†to reflect his spiritual change.
Living as a homosexual, he says, was like “chasing a ghost†because he thought a stable, perfect relationship with “Mr. Right†was not going to happen for him.
On the difficult process of turning away from homosexuality: “I would say, ‘I’m not going to go to the club again,’ ‘I’m not going to see Johnny again,’ ‘I’m just not going to feel this way again.’ It would last two or three weeks until, you know, my white knuckles would release themselves and I would go back to it.â€
“I had to look to a power that was greater than myself.â€
On his wife: “When I met her, the feelings that I had toward her were feelings I’d never felt before and it wasn’t a passing thing.â€
Don’t forget to listen to our podcast interview with Pastor D.L. Foster.
Send to a friend:
November 15th, 2007 at 1:45 pm
Thank you for letting your readers hear about DL’s inspiring testimony and about the transforming power of Jesus Christ’s love and grace being offered to all.
God bless.
November 15th, 2007 at 9:57 pm
This is great! God is able to do exceedingly and abundantly if we allow Him to move in our lives. Thank you for the balanced report.
November 15th, 2007 at 10:21 pm
Thanks for allowing DL Foster to share his awesome testimony to your readers. He has ministered God grace and love to so many people.
November 16th, 2007 at 12:23 pm
Thank you for allowing a voice of liberty to be raised in this forum. Often this voice is ignored or suppressed in the media. I sincerely appreciate your willingness to let your readers hear and read of a truly ‘alternative lifestyle’.
November 17th, 2007 at 10:04 pm
Lame. What total lies. Are there really people in this day and age who are stupid enough to believe this drivel?
How irresponsible of Creative Loafing to give a mouth piece to this blatant falsehood. No one chooses to be gay. Why would anyone CHOSE to be treated like a third class citizen? Why would a gay person chose to hated, feared and lied about by ignorant people like Ms. Vinson? This falsehood that people chose to be gay is propaganda by religious zealots who want to rationalize and legitimize their hatred and bigotry in any means they can.
I feel sorry for Mr. Foster since it is obvious his self loathing and internalized homophobia are so pervasive that he feels he has to pretend to be straight and pray consistently to deny the fact he was born gay.
Shame on this illegitimate “news” publication for being a willing participant in perpetuating this complete fraud that being gay is a choice or that prayer to Jesus can “cure” you from homosexuality.
Creative Loafing isn’t just living in the bible belt, it’s operating like it’s still in the Middle Ages. Wake up and stop giving people yet another excuse to discriminate against gays and lesbians. It is both irresponsible and hateful!
November 19th, 2007 at 1:56 am
I really appreciate DL’s interview. It is a great encouragement to see others who have changed their sexual orientation just as i have. Unlike what Zak explained, some people do change. It may be a minority but it is not impossible. Several studies have bore this out though it is not accepted by our current culture. It is politically incorrect. Everyone wants people to believe it is fairytale. Popular opinion or propaganda is not always true.
No one says taht people CHOOSES to be gay. Choosing and not being born gay are two different things. We simply choose not to remain gay. Just because Zak has not changed or can’t imagine the possibility doesn’t mean that others cannot. I didn’t believe that change would be possible for me. But I’ve seen my same-sex attraction diminish and I’ve developed small amounts of oposite sex attraction when there was none previously.
Is there really a definition for “internalized homophobia?” I mean, isn’t that just a bunch of rhetoric used anytime a person rejects the gay agenda?
I commend DL Foster. I only feel that he left his audience hanging. Though it is obvious he doesnt believe in therapy. It has helped me in the last 4 of my 29 years. I recommend reparative therapy, peoplecanchange website, narth and any other organization for those seeking help with same-sex attractions.
November 19th, 2007 at 11:16 am
I find it sickening that someone can claim to be a reverend who knows so little about the Bible as to think it is antigay. Romans 13:10 “Love worketh no ill to his neighbour; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law,” answers the question, with numerous examples of homosexuality in the Bible from Prophet Daniel to King David to Jesus’ Beloved John, who is assigned to care for the Mother of God after Jesus dies. Whether or not Foster is really “transformed” or a bisexual or, most likely, on the downlow, is his own business. But he should not defame religion and drag it through the mud by associating it with the nonsensical lies that there is something wrong or sinful about homosexuality. As Jesus said in Matthew 15:11 “It is not that which goeth into the mouth which defileth the man; but that which cometh out of the mouth; this defileth the man.” And Jesus himself said that “eunuchs,” meaning those without children, including in that day many gays, can be baptized and serve God better than others in Matthew 19:12, a direct refutation of Leviticus. Rev. D.L. Foster has defiled himself and dishonred religion with lies. As for his criticism of the gay community, as though there are no gays in long-term monogamous relationships, well, that’s just nonsense. He’d have to be a sociopath to blame his failure to find such people on gays, since there are many thousands of gays in the Atlanta area who have such relationships.
November 19th, 2007 at 4:22 pm
Sorry Jacob but the fact that you find there is something wrong with being gay–the way God made you, me and Pastor Foster–and made ALL of us in his image and likeness (according to your bible) and that you fervently feel the need to change, proves to me that both you, Past Foster and all the other supposed ex-Gays, are in need of some help. Where in your bible does it say that God made everyone BUT the gay people in his image?
You yourself admit that this conversion therapy has not worked completely, Jacob. Any reputable psychiatrist will tell you that sexual orientation is not mutable and cannot be changed. What is sad is that you and Pastor Foster think that there is something wrong with being gay and that requires you to alter who you were born.
Sadder still is Creative Loafing giving Pastor Foster the chance to present his story as if it were both reputable and true. All it does is allow religious zealots the opportunity to continue hating and discrimination against gays and lesbians–as if we chose to be this way. An idiotic thought. Why would someone chose to be gay and chose to face the discrimination and wrath of society and the self titled christians who want to use their “faith” to marginalize others?
Maybe it is time for Atlanta’s GLBT community to turn our collective backs on the Creative Loafing publication and boycott the advertisers who support this yellow journalism and the hate it fosters.
November 19th, 2007 at 4:55 pm
Zak: Publishing the interview with D.L. Foster doesn’t constitute an endorsement of his words. I personally think there’s something sick in someone trying to “convert” people to one’s own narrow version of morality, when all they’re doing is living their lives in as moral a way as he is. While by all accounts Foster is a very cordial guy, I can’t help but think that there’s also a bit of denial and self-hatred in his taking on that kind of mission in life.
But don’t you think it’s also important to understand where people are coming from in very objective terms, however wrong you think they are? That’s the aim of the Profile feature: To introduce readers to a diverse range of local people in very documentary terms — and then to open it up for reader comment online.
CL’s readers are the most culturally sophisticated audience of any media organization in the state, so we trust them to interpret such information in a pretty intelligent fashion.
Ken Edelstein
Editor
November 19th, 2007 at 5:58 pm
Sorry Mr. Edlestein, but I still disagree with you and with your publishing this piece in the manner that you did.
First there was nothing about the piece either on line or in the published version that justify calling it a documentary. There is no research addressing the issues of sexual orientation nor any information about the damage caused by people who believe the homosexuality can or needs to be changed. You can call it a documentary or any other lofty words but it is just one person opinion and it was not on the opinion page of your paper.
The piece as it is looks like you are in complete support of both the Paster, his ministry and his views that gay people can change–but only if they find God and Jesus–and have rather strong knuckles. There was no irony, no other points of view and no scientific research or content to back up the still inflammatory message that gay people can and should change.
While you may contest that your readers are smart, savy and sane, the fact that you delivered this message in the straightforward and unapologetic manner that you did leads the reader to believe that you are indeed in agreement with what he’s saying. You offer no other point of view.
If your goal is to provide a mouthpiece for people who’s views are outside the mainstream to educate us and enlighten us, then can we expect you to publish a lovely “what a treat for you!” piece from a Nazi during the Jewish high holidays? A white supermacist’s “objective terms” during the Dr. Martin Luther King Holiday?
I should certainly hope not.
Yet you defend this piece and its not so subtle message that being gay is a choice and one that gay people need to change. As an intelligent person with past experience both in and with the media, I think your treatment of the article and your defense of it rings hollow and speaks to your organization’s not so subtle issues with homosexuality.
November 19th, 2007 at 7:03 pm
Zak: “Documentary” in the sense of documenting his words in, as you say, a straightforward, unapologetic manner.
An investigative piece on the issue of “ex-gays” might have exposed a bunch of Ted Haggarts and, as you suggest, people who’ve been harmed by the bum idea that there’s something wrong with being gay. An opinion column might have eloquently seared Foster’s whole message. But I also think it’s pretty revealing to confront his words and thoughts in an unadulterated fashion. It is what it is.
In fact, we’ve published quite a few fairly straightforward pieces on the Aryan Nations and similar fringe groups. I personally don’t think this guy falls into that category of vitriol; those groups are more akin in their open hatred to the Phelps family church.
Do you really believe that publishing Foster’s words shows that CL’s adopted an agenda that runs counter to our consistent editorial stand in favor of gay marriage, equal access to insurance benefits and other gay rights issues?
November 19th, 2007 at 8:22 pm
Mr. Edelstein:
I actually do believe that the subtle message of the ex-Gay proponents and the religious zealots who say: “We don’t hate gay people. We just hate their sinning ways” are indeed as insidious and hateful as the folks who are loudly out there screaming: “God hates fags” or the like.
While Pastor Foster is clutching his holy magic book and claiming it’s his god or his religion that tells him homosexuality or gay people are wrong, no one dare disagree with them. His “freedom of religion” protects him and he is indeed free to to believe what he likes. I am free to not have to participate in his “religion” and i should be free from his out there message of hate and “being gay is bad”.
But your paper did have a choice and you chose to publish this piece. And if you claim to be in favor of gay marriage, and pro gay rights, then this piece makes me wonder: which is the real Creative Loafing? The one that claims to be pro gay or the one that subtlely slips in religious dogma that claims gays can change if they beg Jesus for his mercy? You have sounded very definisve so I wonder if you really thought this piece had any merit. Thus far your arguement has not won me over.
You don’t get it both ways Mr. Edelstein. Nothing in your publication of this piece or its tone puts it in any sort of light that Pastor D.L.’s magic cure or his views are anything but the truth or ones that you (Creative Loafing) agree with and support. Read the headline: “Editor’s note: A special treat for you! This week’s profilee, Pastor D.L.”
The fact is, if people could snap their fingers and not have to deal with being gay, being ostracized, discriminated against, or face the subtle and oft not subtle hatred that religious people still think is Christian to spew forth, then don’t you think this issue would be moot? Pastor D.L.’s message is one based on LIES. There is no magic way to change your sexual orientation. You got on his bandwagon and no matter how “pro gay” your publication may claim to have been–in the past, you lost me at: “A special treat for you!”
November 19th, 2007 at 10:03 pm
Thanks for having the courage to post this. The real homophobes are those so frightened by the GLBT community that they cower to all their demands.
Jeff, I’m not sure where you learned those things about the Bible, but that is a load of fiction. Here are some facts:
100% of the verses addressing homosexual behavior denounce it as sin in the strongest possible terms.
100% of the verses referencing God’s ideal for marriage involve one man and one woman.
100% of the verses referencing parenting involve moms and dads with unique roles (or at least a set of male and female parents guiding the children).
0% of 41,173 Bible verses refer to homosexual behavior in a positive or even benign way or even hint at the acceptability of homosexual unions.
November 19th, 2007 at 11:12 pm
Yes, Neil the bible is filled with many passages of infinite wisdom. Here are a few other brilliant edicts from your “holy” book. Do you follow these too?
1. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord — Lev. 1:8-11. “ 8 He shall remove all the fat from the bull of the sin offering-the fat that covers the inner parts or is connected to them, 9 both kidneys with the fat on them near the loins, and the covering of the liver, which he will remove with the kidneys- 10 just as the fat is removed from the ox [1] sacrificed as a fellowship offering. [2] Then the priest shall burn them on the altar of burnt offering. 11 But the hide of the bull and all its flesh, as well as the head and legs, the inner parts and offal.â€
The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?
2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. 7 “If a man sells his daughter as a servant, she is not to go free as menservants do.
In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?
3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness — Lev.15:19-24. 19 ” ‘When a woman has her regular flow of blood, the impurity of her monthly period will last seven days, and anyone who touches her will be unclean till evening. 20 ” ‘Anything she lies on during her period will be unclean, and anything she sits on will be unclean. 21 Whoever touches her bed must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be unclean till evening. 22 Whoever touches anything she sits on must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be unclean till evening. 23 Whether it is the bed or anything she was sitting on, when anyone touches it, he will be unclean till evening. 24 ‘If a man lies with her and her monthly flow touches him, he will be unclean for seven days; any bed he lies on will be unclean.†The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.
4. Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, “Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves.†Provided they are purchased from neighboring nations.
A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Why can’t I own Canadians?
5..I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath — Exodus 35:2. “2 For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day shall be your holy day, a Sabbath of rest to the LORD . Whoever does any work on it must be put to death.â€
The passage clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?
6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination — Lev. 11:10, “10 But all creatures in the seas or streams that do not have fins and scales-whether among all the swarming things or among all the other living creatures in the water-you are to detest it‖ is it a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don’t agree. Can you settle this? Are there ‘degrees’ of abomination?
7. Lev. 21:20 “20 or who is hunchbacked or dwarfed, or who has any eye defect, or who has festering or running sores or damaged testicles states that I may not approach the altar of God.†If I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?
8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even thought this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. 27 “‘Do not cut the hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard.†How should they die?
9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 “6 The rabbit, though it chews the cud, does not have a split hoof; it is unclean for you. 7 And the pig, though it has a split hoof completely divided, does not chew the cud; it is unclean for you. 8 You must not eat their meat or touch their carcasses; they are unclean for you.†That touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?
10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 19 ” Keep my decrees. Do not mate different kinds of animals. Do not plant your field with two kinds of seed. Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material.†By planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? — Lev. 24:10-16. “10 Now the son of an Israelite mother and an Egyptian father went out among the Israelites, and a fight broke out in the camp between him and an Israelite. 11 The son of the Israelite woman blasphemed the Name with a curse; so they brought him to Moses. (His mother’s name was Shelomith, the daughter of Dibri the Danite.) 12 They put him in custody until the will of the LORD should be made clear to them. 13 Then the LORD said to Moses: 14 “Take the blasphemer outside the camp. All those who heard him are to lay their hands on his head, and the entire assembly is to stone him. 15 Say to the Israelites: ‘If anyone curses his God, he will be held responsible; 16 anyone who blasphemes the name of the LORD must be put to death. The entire assembly must stone him. Whether an alien or native-born, when he blasphemes the Name, he must be put to death.â€
Couldn’t we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? — Lev. 20:14 14 ” If a man marries both a woman and her mother, it is wicked. Both he and they must be burned in the fire, so that no wickedness will be among you.â€
November 20th, 2007 at 12:42 am
Neil you need to start reading the Bible before you make such nonsensical claims.
Daniel 1:9 “Now God had brought Daniel into favour and tender love with the prince of the eunuchs.” Not just is it not disapproved, but God brought it about.
1 Samuel 18:1-4 “And it came to pass, when he had made an end of speaking unto Saul, that the soul of Jonathan was knit with the soul of David, and Jonathan loved him as his own soul. And Saul took him that day, and would let him go no more home to his father’s house. Then Jonathan and David made a covenant, because he loved him as his own soul. And Jonathan stripped himself of the robe that was upon him, and gave it to David, and his garments, even to his sword, and to his bow, and to his girdle.” 1 Samuel 19:2 “But Jonathan Saul’s son delighted much in David: and Jonathan told David, saying, Saul my father seeketh to kill thee” 1 Samuel 19:24 “And he (Saul) stripped off his clothes also, and prophesied before Samuel in like manner, and lay down naked all that day and all that night. Wherefore they say, is Saul also among the prophets?” 1 Samuel 20:4 “Then said Jonathan unto David, Whatsoever thy soul desireth, I will even do it for thee.” 1 Samuel 20:17 “And Jonathan caused David to swear again, because he loved him: for he loved him as he loved his own soul.” 1 Samuel 20:30 “Then Saul’s anger was kindled against Jonathan, and he said unto him, Thou son of the perverse rebellious woman, do I not know that thou hast chosen the son of Jesse (David) to thine own confusion, and unto the confusion of thy mother’s nakedness?” 1 Samuel 20:41 “And as soon as the lad had gone, David arose out of a place toward the south, and fell upon his face to the ground, and bowed himself three times; and they (David and Jonathan) kissed one another, and wept one with one another, until David exceeded.” 1 Samuel 21:4-5 “And the priest answered David…if the young men have kept themselves at least from women. And David answered the priest and said unto him, Of a truth women have been kept from us about these three days, since I came out, and the vessels of the young men are holy…” 2 Samuel 1:23, 26 “Saul and Jonathan were lovely and pleasant in their lives….they were swifter than eagles, they were stronger than lions…I am distressed for thee, my brother Jonathan: very pleasant hast thou been unto me: thy love to me was wonderful, passing the love of women.”
These passages constitute the longest gay love story in the Bible. The antigay people say that this was merely a friendship, but this is a distinction without a difference, given that this same sex commitment was equal to marriage. In any case, the overwhelming evidence is against them, including the use of a Hebrew word for male lover in the earliest versions, and a use of a sexual term euphemistically translated “exceeded.” Even by the English translation, it is obvious that this is no mere friendship, encompassing a covenant, stripping, physical contact and activity, defiance of King Saul on pain of death, and “surpassing the love of women.” King Saul’s anger that Jonathan has “chosen” David even at the price of his own inheritance describes no mere “friendship” and hearkens to how sleeping with the mother uncovers the father’s nakedness. The significance of the passage is that King David is the greatest hero in Israel’s history, and was well favored by God. Most of the Psalms were his, and his son Solomon built the Temple. It is inconceivable homosexuality is really detested by God when God raised a homosexual to be his people’s greatest king.
November 20th, 2007 at 1:08 am
Dear False Prophet:
Im sure you were just joking and asking silly, rhetorical questions, but here are some like-minded answers which you should consider:
1. Please use a George Foreman grill when sacrificing your bulls. The steaks definitely taste better.
2. You’ll need to check with the particular country’s embassy for current daughter slave rates to get the best deal.
3. I think Planned Parenthood has an anonymous hotline which provides real women to answer such questions. You can contact PP by just looking in your Yellow Pages.
4. Canada currently has legal gay marriage. Legalized slave trade of its citizens would just be too much market competition for the gay marriage industry, which of course is much more lucrative.
5. No, hire a hit man. Generally, the best hit men are illegal Mexican aliens. They can get in and out of the country mostly undetected.
6. That’s easy. You should know this already. Its a high abomination for people residing in ND, SD, NC, SC, VA and WV to eat shellfish. All other states, its a misdemeanor offense.
7. The rules may have shifted somewhat on this very critical situation. But as a general rule of thumb, if you can see further than a one-legged Florida knat, then youre okay.
8. Although we hate this stupid rule, we suggest you watch Freddie Kruger’s 3rd movie for all the authorized ways to get the deed done. Remember if the friend (you want to stone) has seen the movie, he gets immunity.
9. You may indeed play football. Its only when you touch the pig while eating a BBQ pork sandwich without gloves that you become unclean. You must have missed that revision to the code. It was added in the spring of 1982.
10. Due to varying work schedules of the townspeople, usually it is reccomended that you elect a diverse committee of hookers, liars, gays, Republicans, and convenience store clerks to do the actual stoning. Once that is completed, the town mayor has to sign off. Now, because of the drought restrictions, no burning is allowed, especially on unsupervised private property.
November 20th, 2007 at 8:01 am
“Neil you need to start reading the Bible before you make such nonsensical claims. ”
I have read the whole Bible many times - New Testament and Old Testament, taken and taught Bible studies, run a Bible study blog, etc. I also listen to about 10 podcast sermons per week and 6-8 apologetics shows. That doesn’t mean I’m always right, but I have put a fair amount of study into this.
To False Prophet: I’m familiar with the list of alleged Bible difficulties skeptics like to trot out. If people really want answers to difficult Bible questions there are plenty of resources out there - try tektonics dot org (I didn’t put the link because I don’t know if it will post). Or stop by my blog.
Here’s a sample: “5. The passage clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?” Many Old Testament passages applied only to the Israelites who had made a specific covenant with God. Unless you are in that category the Sabbath laws don’t apply to you. The moral laws do.
By asking that question you revealed that you were ignorant of this fact and not the expert you imply that you are. No big deal; we all have things to learn. Either that, or you know the answer but like to throw out your little example because you think people will take it seriously.
Jeff, I encourage you to dig a little deeper. The King James translation used language that at the time would not have implied homosexual behavior with Daniel 1:9, for example. Here is how it reads in a more literal translation: “Now God made Daniel to find kindness and compassion in the sight of the prince of the eunuchs.” If you read the verse in context (rule #1 for good Bible study) it will be even more clear.
The same goes for the long-debunked passages about David and Samuel. Sorry to burst your bubble.
I’ll try to post a link in a separate comment, but in case it doesn’t take feel free to visit the sexuality section of my blog for an analysis of the problems with pro-gay theology. Good news: God loves gay people and wants them to repent, just as He wants for heterosexuals. We are all sinners in need of a Savior. Eternity is a mighty long time.
Peace,
Neil
November 20th, 2007 at 8:03 am
Was King David gay? Short answer: No. Longer answer here - http://www.tektonics.org/gk/gaydavid.html
Responding to Pro-Gay Theology
November 20th, 2007 at 10:20 am
I would like to thank Creative Loafing for allowing my husband this platform to share the miraculous and transforming power of Jesus Christ in His Life.
DL and I have been on the front line for over 10 years declaring freedom from homosexuality for all that seek change.
It has been an honor for me to stand by his side and witness the miracle of Jesus Christ in his life each and every day.
I would also like to take this opportunity to honor women that are married to men that have changed and also to encourage those that have husbands that still struggle. Yes there is hope and you are not alone.
Yes Men and women can change by the Power of Jesus Christ if they are willing.
Thank you again Creative Loafing for a job well don.
November 23rd, 2007 at 9:02 pm
I can certainly attest that sexual orientation is indeed changeable. As a recovering Christian, I left the heterosexual lifestyle decades ago. I now have a committed partner, several children, a home, and a happy life I couldn’t even have imagined while I was still trapped in Christianity. Thanks be to Sappho!! ;)
November 29th, 2007 at 12:20 pm
Neil, your link proves nothing. That David was married (an arranged marriage) is not in dispute. That David said he preferred Jonathan to the love of women is also not in dispute, and therefore gay. The attempt to take Muslim culture of the twentieth century and claim it represents Jewish culture of King David’s time, well that’s beyond absurd. But none of today’s Muslims would describe their relations as a covenant more precious than their family even though Jonathan risked death from his father by sticking up for David in any case. Futhermore, there was routine intimate contact between men in David’s day, revealed by such things as swearing on another’s “thigh” (mistranslated Hebrew word for genitals), or Jacob’s wrestling all night with a man with his “thigh” (same mistransation) out of joint. The gayness of David not a fantasy. The fantasy is the absurd double standard of Christians who try to pretend that every emotional connection between men in the Bible is non-sexual, and that some stories like that of Sodom which have nothing to do with homosexuality, are sexual. This absurd and childish reading would require not just a different culture but a change in human nature itself, which is not supportable.
November 29th, 2007 at 12:48 pm
Neil, you have fallen into the trap of trying to deny the plain English meaning by a faulty translation. First of all, nobody in America believes in the Bible because of what it says in Hebrew and Greek. But second, the “antigay” passages in Paul have been mistranslated so a reversion to original languages further subverts the antigay case. Your translation of Daniel 1:9, is not honest, for example. Here is a word for word with complete definitions from Strong’s in parentheses.
Now God (’elohiym: agnels, exceeding, God, Gods, mighty, great, judges) had brought (nathan: to give, used with greatest lattitude of application, put, make) Daniel (daniye’l: judge of God, Daniel or Danijel) into favour (checed: kindness; by implication piety: rarely reproof, or beauty), and tender love (racham: compassion - plural -, by extension, the womb ; by implication, a maiden) with (paniym: the face, used in a great variety of applications) the prince (sar: a head person, captain, chief, general, governor, keeper, lord, ruler, steward) of the eunuchs (cariyc from an unused root meaning to castrate; a eunuch; by implication, valet and thus, a minister of state)
http://lexicon.scripturetext.com/daniel/1-9.htm
All of which sounds even gayer than the original since “tender love” is actually not compassion but compassions and used to refer to maidens and therefore a womanly role; and the unused “to castrate” root could be anything from a special rank to a homosexual.
Once again we see that the deeper you dig into the Bible, the more ridiculous and impossible an antigay interpretation is.
November 29th, 2007 at 8:56 pm
Satan does not promote freedom. For several years I enjoyed the lifestyle and it;s fringe benefits. It was fun for a little while before it turned into bondage to things that twisted my emotions, spirit and mind. I did not need to be a Christian to understand that. However, Jesus offered me freedom from bondage.. The invitation is open to anyone who will consciously entrust themselves to him. He gave us his Word.
Believe it !
November 29th, 2007 at 10:08 pm
“Satan does not promote freedom”
That is the most fantastic thing I have ever read on Fresh Loaf. Thank you Oscar.
November 30th, 2007 at 3:54 pm
“CL’s readers are the most culturally sophisticated audience of any media organization in the state, so we trust them to interpret such information in a pretty intelligent fashion.
Ken Edelstein”
Ken, after reading the BMF posts in recent weeks, you really cracked me up with that one hahahahahaha
November 30th, 2007 at 5:29 pm
Zak says;
“I am free to not have to participate in his “religion†and i should be free from his out there message of hate and “being gay is badâ€.
Zak, how do you propose, other than outright censorship, making certain that you are “free from his message”. The Constitution guarantees your right to speech, not your right to not be offended by others speech.
“it was not on the opinion page of your paper.”
Zak, CL does not have an “opinion” section, it IS an opinon section. Grow up.
Basically, CL’s deep and committed support of the GLBT community is negated (and you suggest) a boycott by printing this piece about the preacher? If your standard for an ally is that high, you wil rapidly lose allies.
You don’t deserve tolerance and acceptance from others if you are unwilling to tolerate and accept.
November 30th, 2007 at 9:55 pm
Dale, gays are fired from their jobs, evicted from their homes, and assaulted in Georgia on a daily basis. And you equate that with wanting “Creative Loafing” not to give column space to someone who has no theological basis but bigotry for his antigay position? You must have no sense of ethics to create this false equivalence. Nobody has suggested Rev. Foster be censored or his livelihood be taken away, or booted from his house. There is no comparison between those who support a status quo of violence against gays in Georgia, and people who object to transparently irreligious nonsense being peddled to the gullible.
December 1st, 2007 at 4:57 pm
Nobody has suggested Rev. Foster be censored or his livelihood be taken away, or booted from his house. There is no comparison between those who support a status quo of violence against gays in Georgia, and people who object to transparently irreligious nonsense being peddled to the gullible.
Jeff, if Dale created a false equivalent you have just compounded the problem with another.
I did not nor have I ever advocated for the firing or housing denial of any gay person. That has nothing to do with theology at all. Its just plain citizenship rights.
To say that I should not be given an opportunity by CL to express my views is intrinsically hypocritical when the paradigm you set up is false and innapplicable.
If I have never advocated what you claim is the status quo in Georgia (and you provided no real updated statistical evidence) then CL is justified in allowing me to have a voice without compromising their current support of gay rights.
December 2nd, 2007 at 8:40 pm
So-called ex-gay ministers like DL Foster prey on young gay men who are unhappy and under stress from by family pressure and society’s intolerance. What these ex-gay quacks cannot see or will not admit is that they themselves are the sources of the unhappiness they claim to be treating.
So called ex-gay ministries have mislead too many young gay men to believe that their sexual orientation can be changed. These unfortunate young gay men might find temporary relief from a delusion that they have changed. They may no longer call themselves gay, but they continue to be physically attracted to other men. Anyone can suppress feelings and live a lie but it doesn’t work in the long run.
There is nothing wrong with being gay. There is something vile and unnatural about telling young gay men need to be something other than who they are.
December 3rd, 2007 at 3:34 pm
Jeff - I have no idea how you reached your conclusions.
I was asking how we make a world in which Zak is free from simply hearing another persons opinion. I did not assign any value or qualitative judgement to those opinions. You did assign my values where none were present and accuse me of being without ethics (which is not possible, all people have ethical positions good and bad), however, and i wonder what that reveals?
I created no equivalency, I merely questioned the intellectual conflict present in Zak’s position of not tolerating others while demanding, not only acceptance but advocacy, of his position. Hand in hand with that is his militant (all or nothing) perspective regarding CL’s advocacy.
I just scrolled up to read my previous post to find the source of your comments. I must assume you were suffering from head trauma or under the influence of some kind of chemical.
My best wishes to you for a speedy recovery.
December 3rd, 2007 at 3:39 pm
Zak says - “Yet you defend this piece and its not so subtle message that being gay is a choice and one that gay people need to change. As an intelligent person with past experience both in and with the media, I think your treatment of the article and your defense of it rings hollow and speaks to your organization’s not so subtle issues with homosexuality.”
Ken, aren’t you ashamed of your actions? haha
This will be a real shocker for many of CL’s GLBT readers, but especially to the gay people who contribute to CL.
I can imagine no better example of militant activisim.
January 25th, 2008 at 4:49 pm
We are a God inspired outreach formed to spread truth and awareness that Freedom from Homosexuality is possible. We strongly believe in the call to spread the truth of the gospel to the people of this world and it is our hope and prayer we can serve as one of many gateways in which a person can come and obtain knowledge concerning the truth that freedom can be found in Christ Jesus.
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