Serious provocation
January 7, 2008 at 2:27 pm by Andisheh Nouraee in NewsFrom the Associated Press:
WASHINGTON (AP) — In what U.S. officials called a serious provocation, Iranian Revolutionary Guard boats harassed and provoked three U.S. Navy ships in the strategic Strait of Hormuz, threatening to explode the American vessels.
Apparently, Iranian military boats playing chicken with three U.S. Navy ships off Iran’s coast constitutes serious provocation.
Twice in 2007, U.S. carrier battle groups practiced maneuvers near Iran’s coast while American political leaders hinted at impending air strikes and/or invasion.
Apparently, that was not a serious provocation.
January 7th, 2008 at 3:04 pm
By “near Iran’s coast” do you mean within 200 yards while transmitting over the radio that you were blowing them up soon?
Two things;
- I am not ready to live or die based on the current info, nor am I willing to call Gulf of Tonkin BS yet
- How retarded do you have to be to challenge the US Navy?
January 7th, 2008 at 3:41 pm
My point is not that Iranian actions were justified.
My point is that the American press be a megaphone for the Pentagon’s phony outrage.
Our military is there to threaten and intimidate, or to put it more politely, project American military power.
We’re pushing. They’re pushing back.
If the push-back is a serious provocation, so was the push.
January 7th, 2008 at 4:16 pm
The press reported the news and attributed the source of the “position”. You are right, the press is obviously a tool of the Pentagon, exhibited by relaxed coverage of “torture” at Abu Ghraib, cell phone monitoring of Osama, financial tools to fight Osama, CIA “secret” prisons, rendition, etc. What a bunch of tools.
Naval operations in international waters are not the same as threatening and maneuvering within 200 yards of another vessel, also in international waters. Navies operate on very clear guidelines and ours showed remarkable restraint in this case. If the reports are accurate, the Iranians pushed until the Navy locked on and then hauled ass. Again, I am assuming current info is complete and true, one which is bound to suffer in the next few days..
Threaten and intimidate? I think our Navy is there to make damn sure the locals don’t look at the absence of Saddam and get a wild hair, which is a good thing.
Push and push back? After 30 years of “Death to America The Great Satan” and Islamic Fascist terrorism around the world, some would say we are the ones “pushing back”. Yes, I know, it is a long history so let’s dig up the Shah, the Crusades, the Caliphate, British Imerialism, French Imperialism, etc etc
I’m just saying.
January 7th, 2008 at 4:50 pm
Aside from the fact that Andisheh is a well known surrender monkey, a little context: Iran (unlike the U.S. or Israel) has not invaded other countries in the last few hundred years. Its military has no aggressive potential, or very little, again compared with the two thermonuclear powers that try to paint Iran as the new Nazi Germany. And the evidence about the Gulf of Tonkin incident is not conjecture; the incidentwas a fraud perpetrated by Pentagon to justify an expanded war. That’s exactly what this incident seems like.
January 7th, 2008 at 5:37 pm
What’s with the Israeli slam, John? Why not mention other middle eastern nations that have invaded others, like say Egypt, Iraq, Syria? Why not mention the hundreds of factions that have invaded other sovereigns all over the world? Hey, lets see how many red herrings we can bring in to the conversation (i.e Israel invaders).
Regarding Iran’s “aggressive” potential. They have plenty of “aggressive” potential, but not much “offensive” capability, which is probably what you meant. There is more to military capability and tactics than open warfare. Guevara and Zapata taught us a little on that subject. Why spend money on a conventional force when you can just buy nuke tech from the Norks or an “A.Q. Khan”-type and multi-stage rocket tech from the Chinese and former USSR?
I know Tonkin makes all you Vietnam era dudes see a red flag, no matter the context. We all know Tonkin was BS and the similarity is exactly why I invoked it in this instance. I clearly stated that I was not ready to believe it all or “call Gulf of Tonkin BS” on the story. I refer you to the doubts I expressed about the veracity of the info in both of my preceding posts.
Last time I checked it is the Ayatollah’s Dancing Puppet Achmadinejad (sp?) who keeps the “acquire nuclear technology” mantra in clear pursuit of weapons and in defiance of the UN. You don’t need 3,000 centrifuges for civilian purposes.
January 7th, 2008 at 10:55 pm
Dale – kudos on your point about the press and its eagerness to constantly blacken the eye of the Pentagon. The notion that the press is blindly supportive of the US military is comical.
January 8th, 2008 at 9:43 am
John, you are right. Iran is definitely not the new Nazi Germany. Those are the Emory Young Republicans, aren’t they?
http://blogs.creativeloafing.com/freshloaf/2007/10/26/horowitz-is-the-fascist-not-those-who-protested-his-emory-speech/
January 8th, 2008 at 11:59 am
Dale, history counts. Iran has no record of threatening its neighbors. It may not be a warm and fuzzy country, but there are reasons for that. After all, it was the CIA that orchestrated the overthrow of a democratically elected government and installed a puppet-monarch, the Shah, whose awful tyranny finally provoked the Islamic revolution. That’s called blowback. I mentioned Israel because it is pushing the US to attack Iran. Egypt, Syria etc. are non-players in this episode.
January 8th, 2008 at 1:20 pm
“Iran has no record of threatening its neighbors”
I suppose all of those Iranian intelligence agents hanging around the Bekka Valley in Lebanon in the 80s and 90s oh and even today were there for a scrabble tournament, huh, John?
Facts count too, you know.
January 8th, 2008 at 2:00 pm
You may want to ask Israel about Iran not threatening it’s neighbors.
Yeah, like I said three posts back ….let’s dig up past offenses. The Shah was fifty years ago and the blowback for that was Khomeini and 444 days.
If they keep screwing with Navy they will learn the true meaning of blowback.
Oh, it seems now that we were passing through the Straits of Hormuz, which is really hard to do without being “off the coast of Iran”. If those reports hold up, we have every right to be there and the Iranians were completely out of line.
January 8th, 2008 at 2:02 pm
It’s My Pal – be warned I was made fun of a month or so back for relying on those pesky details and nuances called facts.
January 9th, 2008 at 7:51 am
chill, the whole thing was filmed on lake tobesofkee in bbib county, georgia, which by the way is full of water.