My take on Biden-Palin
October 3, 2008 at 9:25 am by Ken Edelstein in NewsA friend wrote: “Palin aside, I thought Biden really nailed it. Very likeable and quite the
dignitary.”
I agree. Biden’s objective was to attack McCain and tie him to Bush. Palin’s was to start getting taken more seriously — essentially a defensive objective at a time when her ticket needs to go on the offensive (but she had no choice).
They both pretty much did that. But people still aren’t going to forget Palin’s Couric interview. And Biden did a bit better at achieving his goals than she did, which means that the momentum should stay with Obama-Biden.
Your take?
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October 3rd, 2008 at 10:37 am
Biden did a good job except for his laughable position that McCain was wrong on every thing about the war and Obama was right. That and defending his teams tax proposals.
Palin stumbled a few times and need to make her commetns more precise. She also nee sot be less snarky on TV.
Supposedly, the Regular Guys interviewed the guy Biden referred to in the line about not being able to fill up his tank. True story, it seems. The guy has known Biden and his siblings since he was 7 and Biden was a youth counselor of some kind. The guy is a firefighter with a sone in medical school and two other kids with good educations and good jobs. Sounds like a good guy and probabyl couldn’t afford to fill his tank if gas were $ 2 a gallon with what he has done for his kids.
BTW, he said Biden paid for his tank of gas. Nice guy. The story sounded real, not political crap.
October 3rd, 2008 at 11:51 am
Good point about her needing to tone down the snark on TV, Dale. Although I think a lot of her fans probably considered it endearingly “plucky.”
Biden did well. He didn’t attack Palin, although as a viewer, there were many times I wanted to run my head through a wall because of her pandering. Biden’s delivery was a little overbearing at times.
I had low expectations for Palin given her recent interviews, but she performed well. She trotted a lame local-level debate tactic of turning every question asked into “well ‘drill, drill, drill,’ but what we really need to be discussing is…” The fact that in the first two minutes she mentioned “Joe Six-Pack” — who I’ll let you know was quite angry to be called out on national television — was lame.
The more I see Palin, the more I think she belongs on a Fox News morning show and not in politics. It’s like watching a reality show winner get her “chance to compete for the VP slot!” She can connect well with people and recites crowd-pleasing talking points with flair. But it’s one thing to vote someone into office “just like us” and another to put your support behind someone who can be pragmatic and intelligent in dealing with the issues. Palin’s more the former than the latter, and I think she’s a risky gimmick to use to win over arch conservatives who were disappointed with McCain snagging the nomination.
October 3rd, 2008 at 11:57 am
I think she has shown pragmatism and intelligence in several of her actions as Governor. The natural gas pipleine, fighting corrupt membersof her own party, trimming high profile fat from the budget, environmetal regs on the petro industry in Alaska are few off teh tiop of my head.
She isn’t as great as some say, nor as bad as others say.
Let’s all remember that, until Cheney, the VP was chosen to enahnce electability of the Presidential candidate and to attend state funerals. Just look at the long list of VP nominations in the past.
October 3rd, 2008 at 12:13 pm
“The more I see Palin, the more I think she belongs on a Fox News morning show and not in politics.”
i think that is a little unfair. like her policies, disagree with them, that’s fine.
let’s not forget that for two years she has held a job that only 49 other people hold at any time in the united states and has consistently had approval ratings well above the national average.
in that two years she has definitely shown a record of accomplishments - dale already elaborated on several.
we can have a substantive debate about whether she is qualified to be vp - i obviously think yes - but “she doesn’t belong in politics?”
can’t buy it, thomas.
October 3rd, 2008 at 12:41 pm
You’re right, James, “doesn’t belong in politics” was broadbrushed, pigheaded and wrong.
Let me clarify: I don’t think she’s quite ready for the vice presidency of the United States. I’ve yet to see her string a thought together on camera that hasn’t required extensive coaching. I’m hearing attempts to be folksy. That may work with the electorate, but it doesn’t instill confidence in me. And when I’m hearing the same old lines without any real substance or thought behind them, that to me sounds like what I hear from the same politicians, Democrat or Republican, who have helped bring us to where we are today. I was hoping for specifics last night.
October 3rd, 2008 at 1:32 pm
Palin really nailed it with the “Gosh, I’m clearly not from Washington” quote. I think that has a lot of appeal with the American public. She did her job as coming across as competent, if a bit folksy.
My favorite part was Biden’s retort on climate change. Finally, someone said the obvious - you can’t address climate change if you don’t know what the problem is. I also really thought his “McCain is no maverick” comments were needed and effective.
October 3rd, 2008 at 2:44 pm
The winner of the night was Katie Couric, the big loser Gwen Ifill. Couric looks like the last best TV journalist with a series of interviews that was not hammy “gotcha” a la 60 minutes, but cool, gentle, but insistent probing.
Ifill was limited by the agreed-upon format, but many of the questions seemed like time fillers, and I’m sorry, I don’t care what they’ve agreed to, if I ask a question and they don’t answer it I’m following up or calling them out on it. I don’t think Palin actually answered a single question as asked. With her wink and giggle you might have missed what she actually said … which in many cases was nothing. Go back and read what she said and try to make sense of it, I defy you.
Biden did exactly what he needed to do: Keep the focus on the top of the ticket, and bang the hell out of Gambler McNasty.
October 3rd, 2008 at 2:47 pm
Palin did well in light of expectations. Though while I am biased I thought she exposed the worst traits of Bush and Reagan. Her answers were rehearsed and memorized bits delivered with her sportscaster training. She probably is nice, but her answers did nothing to change what the Gibson and Kouric interviews showed - that being her lack of intellectual knowledge or understanding of issues.
For example her answer to the achellies Heal question or her answer to the sub prime question revealed she wasn’t formulating answers but instead saying rehearsed lines.
I’m sorry but as John Stewart said I want the person in the White House to make me feel inferior. The Greeter at Wal Mart probably knows people and challenges facing citizens well but I don’t want the greeter as president.
Biden on the other hand did a very good job. Obama was smart to pick him. He’s one of the poorest senators which indicates how clean he is. He was believable as being a common man or understanding the common man/woman. And his answer about understanding the challenges of being a single parent was touching. The fact Palin’s response to that launched into one of her canned speeches without acknowledging what Biden just shared was further indication that she was not speaking from knowledge but from memorized speeches. I think she’d make a great White House spokesperson for Bush.
Also what McCain did to Palin in that interview about the “gotcha” line was so paternalistic, does he understand how to treat a woman as an equal? Guess he is from another time.
October 3rd, 2008 at 3:42 pm
I commend to your attention this Slate story, in which the author attempts to diagram some of Palin’s inanities. The fact her half-baked performance at the debate last night is being touted as a victory by her side is evidence of pretty much our society’s intellectual armageddon.
At any rate:
http://www.slate.com/id/2201158/
October 3rd, 2008 at 3:55 pm
Another thing, she actually can only claim being a governor for two years on her 2 year anniversary this December.
I also think the trooper gate matter and many of her appointments of friends reveals a sort of small town mentality.
And I don’t count experience as governor for one year plus on the same level as governor of another state for the simple fact that Alaska by virtue of is unique circumstances of having MASSIVE oil revenues and few citizens does not face the same challenges the other 49 states do.
Alaska is ranked 47th population wise with 683,478 people. California has 36 million people, Texas has 23 million, NY 19 Million and Georgia 9.5 million.
I am starting to wonder if the show Northern Exposure was a little more on the mark than thought - I mean can you imagine Georgia electing a governor whose experience was largely defined as running a small company and being mayor of a town of 8,000 people?
Could she run for Congress? sure, State legislature? sure. Then again Alaska because of its oil wealth can gamble and pick a fresh face with plucky sound bite answers.
Speaking of Gamble… isn’t it telling John McCain loves to gamble and he gambled the whole house on picking her for VP? Unfortunately the whole house includes my house.
October 3rd, 2008 at 4:22 pm
Let me take this opportunity to give a shout out to Ken Edelstein and all the good people over at Creative Loafing Atlanta…and all the 6 pack guys I played baseball with in the third grade at Oakland Elementary School in Panama City, great state of Florida…
and Ken, don’t worry about things, Your reward, like all Americans, is in Heaven!
Seriously though,
I’m more impressed with “O’Biden’s” ability to run the country in case of an Obama emergency,
and
I’m more more terrified of the possibility of “McPalin” running the country in case of a McCain
emergency.
(wink wink to that Bridge to Nowhere) ;)
October 3rd, 2008 at 5:06 pm
I thought Palin did ok, but her “folksy” thing seems like a performance. I don’t like that fact that they parade her little baby onstage at 11 p.m. I’m tired of hearing the words “maverick” and “hockey mom.”
October 3rd, 2008 at 5:28 pm
First, Biden did extremely well. He is polished, professional and he knows his policy inside and out. He is capable of holding any office he wants to hold. But, nothing about him communicates change in a campaign that is extensively about change.
Sarah Palin did extremely well and she re-establish her connection after a month of withering attacks by Democrats and others. Never before has any candidate for national office been so throughly dimished by the national media with the intent of helping another campaign — in this case Obama.
McCain made the right pick for his campaign and it came through the screen. Her command of the screen is so massive that she was able to gain equal footing with the excellent Biden by just being herself. In television lingo, she would be regarded as having “it” — that unknown dynamic that gives certain persons a massive public/television appeal for largely unidentifiable reasons.
Biden and Obama should be happy that there is only one VP debate.
Palin is someone who connects with people massively. The Democrats need to be worried about her during the next 30+ days. The campaign that is improving during the campaign’s last 30 days is the favorite to win and Obama’s campaign does have the slightest sense of having peaked.
October 4th, 2008 at 2:37 am
It amazes me how many people felt Palin did “well” in the debate. That view must be the result of a serious lowering of expectations, not so much by her bio, but by years under the influence of dumbed-down media and politics. We expect too damn little any more.
Some of the things that grated on me during her performance were:
Dodging questions: I estimate Palin disregarded or refused to respond to about one third of the questions asked of her. Since when is saying “Let’s change the subject” considered a good debate skill?. It may keep you from falling flat on your face, but it’s disrespectful with the audience, the moderator and the opponent. In comparison Biden did a much better job of giving reasonably straight answers to the questions posed, not just the ones he cherry picked to answer.
Phony, over the top folksiness: I am sorry, I don’t want to hear Palin talk about “Joe Six Pack” in the VP debate anymore than I want to hear Obama talk about “Homeboys” in the presidential ones. It’s tacky and untoward. And, just how many “Doggone its”, You betchas”, “Heckuvas” and “Gollys” can you hear in one VP debate before you begin to feel like you are trapped in some sort of Groundhog’s Day nightmare in Beaver Cleaver Land?
By contrast, I though Biden found a good, middlebrow tone. I think he was engaging and understandable to the average listener, without having to pretend he was sipping a beer with Ozzie & Harriet.
Feigned political naivete: It thought the “I just don’t get you Washington insiders” line was one of the real low points of the debate, not only because is was a major dodge tactic, but it was hypocritical. I think Ms. Bridge-to-Nowhere-as-long-as-Uncle-Sam-is- paying, Ms. Wasilla-Pork-Barrel-Capital-USA, Ms. Troopergate, Ms. McCain-Wants-More-Oversight-on-Wall-Street, can flip flop with the best of the beltway insiders. She sure ain’t as pure as the driven snow. Biden appeared to be much more sincere and authentic in personal style than Palin in her cardboard character innocence.
Hot air & doublespeak: I heard almost nothing about what the actual platform is from Palin, other than platitudes like “cut taxes” and “clean up Washington, without a word about which or how. I definitely didn’t see even a trace of her purported “energy expertise” come through. There really was no meat in any of her remarks. I think Biden delivered considerably more substance on just about every question than Palin did.
All in all, Biden played the part of middle-of-the-raod statesman capable of advising the president, while she looked a whole lot more like, as Wheatley said, a Fox News anchor or a snarky Bush-like mouthpiece, with some spunk thrown in for kicks.
October 4th, 2008 at 3:04 pm
Ditto to Ellen’s first graf.I was amazed after the debate to hear the talking heads praise her, predicting she’d be a strong candidate in 2012. Most of them complimented her for giving a voice to the commoners.
Of course, all she did well was lie and dodge questions while winking at us, as if we’re all members of her just-plain-folks club, weary of the Joe Bidens who have ruined DC for the Joe Sixpacks. Hello? The Republicans have been in power for eight years.
But none of this, including the pundits’ usual complicity with the Republicans, seems to have worked. The voting public itself has called Biden the winner by significant majorities that are reflected in Obama’s increasing leads.
This is a pleasant surprise. I suspect it’s a result of the economic crisis — the usual fear that motivates voters has been redirected to the GOP. But maybe not. Maybe the population is waking up and really does see what the pundits, isolated in the beltway, can’t see, even as they continue to claim to speak for the same Joe Sixpacks Palin claims to represent.
October 6th, 2008 at 10:40 am
Seems like Gov. Palin, who whines over a “gotcha” media, has discovered that national politics is exactly like field dressing a caribou … pretty damned bloody business.
But unlike harvesting a caribou, in politics there isn’t always meat left after the skinning.
October 6th, 2008 at 11:18 am
Palin’s folksy affectations would be offensive if they were anything other than small-town platitudes. Can you even imagine Obama up there GIVIN’ IT UP FOR MY DOGGS YEAH BOYEEEEEE or Bill Richardson REPRESENTING MI AMIGOS EN LA RAZA ARRIBA or John McCain all WHEN IS MATLOCK COMING ON? I WANT TO SEE MAAAATLOCCCCKKKKKK!!!
It’s a load of hogwash. It’s Larry the Cable Guy. It’s the midwest equivalent of blackface. Honkyface. Fargoface.
Ugh.
October 6th, 2008 at 1:03 pm
“All Palin did was lie and dodge…”
I’m still wondering about that Franco-US Joint Task Force that Sen Biden says kicked Hezbollah out of Syria. WTF???
His hometown restaurant, Katy’s, where he invited everyone to sit down for a meal, closed in the 1980’s.
Palin doesn’t know much about foreign policy and Biden makes it up in fantasyland.
I call it a draw.
October 7th, 2008 at 9:01 pm
I agree with Hooper’s “honkeyface” assessment. We all know that “Joe Six Pack” and “Hockey Mom” aren’t meant to be people of color. Palin is not just winking at the “just-plain-folks” club; she’s speaking to her just-plain-white-folks club. She is speaking to a certain club — and very intentionally so.
October 8th, 2008 at 10:11 am
Give me a break with the “code” words.