Inman Park group to Oxendine: Retract East Atlanta Highway statement
September 1, 2009 at 12:01 pm by Thomas Wheatley in NewsFew neighborhood groups have been as vocally opposed to Georgia Republican gubernatorial candidate John Oxendine’s proposal of a “parallel downtown connector” than the Inman Park Neighborhood Association. Since Oxendine’s proposal to “talk” about an east-of-Atlanta interstate that could help motorists avoid driving through the city received attention late last week, the neighborhood’s message board has been filled with discussions about the candidate’s pie-in-the-sky idea.
Many of its members still remember the bitter battle over Stone Mountain Freeway/I-485, the proposed interstate that would’ve converted Inman Park and nearby vibrant hamlets, at the least, into “exits” rather than “neighborhoods.” Through an intense showing of community engagement and opposition, residents helped kill that proposal.
And if Oxendine’s proposed road were to ever be built, it could potentially displace many of the intown residents and impact their quality of life. It would also cost the state an arm and a leg.
Inman Park Neighborhood Association President Lisa Burnette has sent a letter to Oxendine demanding that he retract his statement. The missive is beautiful in a scathing type of way — she gives him an Inman Park history lesson and takes him to task for his “build-more-roads” strategy. She leaves the candidate with this warning:
These Atlanta neighborhoods, including Inman Park, most soundly defeated this highway proposal decades ago, at a time when they had little organization and little resources. Today, we are highly organized and closely networked. We have neighbors and friends in many high places, and we have a lot of money, set aside specifically to protect ourselves against these kinds of proposals.
Burnette’s full letter after the jump.
September 1, 2009
Commissioner John Oxendine
Via electronic mail: campaignmanager@johnoxendine.comDear Commissioner Oxendine:
I am writing on behalf of the Inman Park Neighborhood Association in intown Atlanta to express our shock and outrage at your recent proposal to revisit the building of a highway through Atlanta’s neighborhoods.
Inman Park was Atlanta’s fist planned community and one of this nation’s first garden suburbs. Developed in the late 1880s, Inman Park was conceived and occupied by turn-of-the century leaders, including such household names as Candler, Hurt, and Woodruff. Inman Park has been listed on the National Register of Historic Places since 1973, and has been designated as one of Atlanta’s protected historic districts since 2002.
Inman Park neighbors and leaders were instrumental in defeating the Stone Mountain Freeway/I-485 plan decades ago. I know many neighbors have forwarded to your office historical accounts of the defeat of this highway, and I hope you have taken the time to read them.
Even then, when many thought these neighborhoods were in ruin, it was ultimately determined that they were worth saving. Now, many of these neighborhoods are designated as protected historic districts, and all of them thriving communities and home to thousands of families.
Just like any other small town in Georgia, each of the communities you would consider tearing apart is a close-knit group of neighbors – they are raising children, volunteering, running small businesses, supporting schools and churches and the arts, among other things. There is not one such community in this state that would benefit economically from having a highway run through it, and ours is no exception.
Because this project was defeated decades ago, our neighborhoods have become the heart and soul of Atlanta. The rejuvenation of the neighborhoods led to the city’s revitalization, which ultimately brings jobs, money, amenities and opportunities to the entire state.
Your proposal is disappointing in so many ways. Only one of them is the fact that your ideas for solving the state’s transportation woes involve building more roads to support yet more cars. Ironically, your transit ideas would destroy parts of the intown neighborhoods, which in fact have become part of a transit solution in and of themselves. The development and support of these city neighborhoods have made it safe, affordable, and feasible for more citizens to locate in the city, closer to their jobs. It allows more citizens to rely on mass transit and alternate means of transportation to relieve congestion on the existing highways. And the neighborhoods have helped push forward the innovative Atlanta Beltline project which is breaking ground all over the metropolitan area, and will ultimately bring much-needed light rail to get even more cars off the roads.
I leave you with this final thought: These Atlanta neighborhoods, including Inman Park, most soundly defeated this highway proposal decades ago, at a time when they had little organization and little resources. Today, we are highly organized and closely networked. We have neighbors and friends in many high places, and we have a lot of money, set aside specifically to protect ourselves against these kinds of proposals.
The Inman Park Neighborhood Association demands that you immediately retract your statements that you would consider building a Stone Mountain Freeway through intown Atlanta.
Sincerely,
Lisa Boardman Burnette
President
Inman Park Neighborhood Association
president@inmanpark.org
P.O. Box 5358
Atlanta, GA 31107
September 1st, 2009 at 12:17 pm
I have to say, Oxendine’s call for a parallel downtown connector is almost as visionary as his proposal to redevelop public parks and cemeteries throughout Georgia into future jet-pack take-off and landing areas.
Way to go, OX!
September 1st, 2009 at 12:36 pm
Oxendine has also taken the lead in working to reduce the costs of public school lunch programs in the state with his proposal to reprocess the thousands of pounds of protein-rich animal meat that is left to waste each year on Georgia’s numerous roads and highways.
September 1st, 2009 at 12:55 pm
Even Mr. T don’t mess with the Inman Park Neighborhood Association. Ox be a fool.
September 1st, 2009 at 1:02 pm
He is as dumb as an ox. There. I said it.
September 1st, 2009 at 1:08 pm
What consideration is given to the freeway via a drilled tunnel that would avoid continuous surface disruptions?
September 1st, 2009 at 1:16 pm
Douglas,
If Boston’s “big dig” is any lesson to us, there is NEVER no surface disruption.
That and I doubt the congress will fall for that again.
September 1st, 2009 at 1:17 pm
This “proposal” of Oxendine’s is as impractical as it is ludicrous. It’s not going to happen. This is nothing more than political pandering to the northern suburbs during an election season. And the more publicity this nonsense gets, the more perceived legitimacy the proposal gains. If everyone would just ignore this idiocy, it would go away.
September 1st, 2009 at 1:18 pm
The convergence of 75/85 through downtown Atlanta is a nightmare that needs resolution. Perhaps building an alternative route through Inman Park is not the answer, but we need an answer. I’d have much more respect for the Inman Park crowd if they could provide some alternative solutions, rather than to just moan about it. Mass transit will not solve the traffice caused by the amount of cars traveling on 75/85 to get to their non-Atlanta destinations. I favor mass transit in Atlanta, and we need to improve drastically in this area, but it would solve the 75/85 downtown issue.
September 1st, 2009 at 1:28 pm
“The convergence of 75/85 through downtown Atlanta is a nightmare that needs resolution.”
Not to be trite, but here’s a resolution:
Move inside the perimeter (and rely on surface streets/MARTA) or take 285 around the city.
September 1st, 2009 at 1:43 pm
Cricket-
You must have missed the word ‘continuous’.
By your standard we would never again build a subway, let alone anything with any surface disruption.
September 1st, 2009 at 1:47 pm
Melinda, as one of the “Inman Park Crowd,” I urge you to re-read the letter above, especially the part about increased use of transit relieving congestion on the highways. And, as Lisa so eloquently states: our intact neighborhoods are themselves part of the transit solution.
September 1st, 2009 at 1:53 pm
Melinda – Connector congestion is nothing that $5 gas wouldn’t solve. Keep terror-funding, global-warming, single-passenger-occupying, gas-guzzling drivers out of Atlanta.
September 1st, 2009 at 1:58 pm
Douglas — don’t forget that highway tunnels require a lot more ventilation than subway or other tunnels. Are you not familiar with the ventilation buildings that now take up valuable real estate and dot Boston’s landscape?
Here’s one of them.
September 1st, 2009 at 2:08 pm
You are correct about the ventilation which allows the opportunity for filtration- all of which requires a tiny fraction of the surface.
As a drilled rather then cut and cover tunnel, route flexibility could even perhaps avoid going beneath the properties of the overly influential.
September 1st, 2009 at 2:23 pm
Douglas,
You obviously didn’t live in Boston for the past twenty years while the Big Dig was going on. I did. The streets of Boston changed on a monthly basis, were diverted, huge piles of dirt and construction equipment were everywhere, it was an absolute mess. The difficulties Boston faced (tunneling through fill, not bedrock) would not be the same in Atlanta, but there would certainly be disruptions.
The better solution? Public transportation. A bus system that is connective (not 8 different bus systems by town or county) and safe and timely, not more roads.
September 1st, 2009 at 2:33 pm
Gradstudent6-
You must have missed the word ‘drilled’ which refers to IOW moled tunnel which differs from cut and cover construction, particularly that just beneath an existing elevated highway that has to maintain traffic throughout the construction.
Also, have you ever seen a street during a cut and cover subway project? NYC’s 2nd Avenue is torn up but who argues that such temporary disturbances outweigh the long term societal benefit?
Apparently these words were not taught at your grad school?
September 1st, 2009 at 2:39 pm
I’m constantly amazed at the highway lobby trying to keep the rest of society acting like astronomers did before the Copernican Revolution.
Back then, astronomers believed that the earth was at the center of the Universe, and that everything revolved in perfect circles around the earth. As they tried to predict the paths of planets, they gradually learned that their assumptions about perfect circles were wrong. So they came to believe the planets’ paths were “circles within circles.” Who could’ve guessed back then that orbits were elliptical, not circular, and that the earth was not the center of the Universe?
While the rest of the world is experiencing its own Copernican Revolution in transportation and land use policy, the highway lobby submits proposals that become more loopy obscene, all to justify a ridiculous, destructive way of thinking.
So now, on top of trying to rationalize spending nearly $50 billion to build a nearly useless tunnel under Atlanta, Douglas here proposes to add a few extra billion dollars to the cost to justify the ventilation system — circles within circles within circles within circles.
September 1st, 2009 at 2:41 pm
Ummm, wasn’t I-285 supposed to be the original ‘parallel downtown connector’?
September 1st, 2009 at 2:44 pm
I hardly ever drive on the interstate, so I don’t have real first-hand knowledge, but google maps tells me that a parallel freeway for through traffic is pretty pointless. Example: for those living in the northern suburbs who want to drive to Florida, taking 285 instead of 75/85 will add no more than 5 miles to your trip and will in some cases shorten the trip (if you live in Gwinnett). I have heard that 285 sucks, but I suspect improving it would be comparitively cheap.
September 1st, 2009 at 2:50 pm
Joeventures-
A tunnel destructive- compared to anything else?
Talk about ‘loopy’.
What we have is a transportation counter reformation that uses ‘arguments’ (more classifiable as mere slogans as a substitute for independent thought) that would work against anything.
September 1st, 2009 at 2:59 pm
Douglas, please. Keep your failed auto-centric transportation notions to your DC blog.
September 1st, 2009 at 3:07 pm
Douglas — nice to see you admit to being part of the counter-reformation.
September 1st, 2009 at 3:10 pm
I heard about this via the Facebook group a few days ago, and am glad it’s getting press outside of that. This is an asinine idea.
How’s about putting some damn MARTA rail lines in Gwinnett county to serve the folks there? And bus service that actually goes to where people need it? Both intown and out.
WHY doesn’t the State of GA give money to MARTA?
Why cann’t Oxendine work on making that happen?
That would probably make a huge difference to traffic coming from there, as well as through the city.
September 1st, 2009 at 3:34 pm
You have no idea of what the counter reformation is:
http://cos-mobile.blogspot.com/2009/05/romish-masonic-religious-drive-against.html
September 1st, 2009 at 3:35 pm
Or this:
http://cos-mobile.blogspot.com/2007/10/beholden-doctrine.html
September 1st, 2009 at 3:36 pm
Meanwhile the rest of the world leaves the US behind, as done in Europe:
http://cos-mobile.blogspot.com/2008/02/going-below-big-roads-below.html
September 1st, 2009 at 3:38 pm
Or as proposed in Cambridge Massachusetts by Harvard University:
http://cos-mobile.blogspot.com/2008/04/harvard-defeats-yale.html
September 1st, 2009 at 3:38 pm
Lets take this opportunity to make sure we elect a black mayor for the city of Atlanta so we can continue….
I’m sorry I’ve wondered into the wrong blog here.
Lets take this opportunity to make sure we elect a governor who will build more highways that cut through cities instead of creating opportunities for people to live, work and play in Intown neighborhoods.
September 1st, 2009 at 3:40 pm
RB-
The failure is the building of anything but roads (which are not necessarily limited to those for SOVs), and of course the reflex you espouse.
Thank God this nation had better smarter people to actually build roads rather then whine about it possibly happening near the (even as tunnel!).
September 1st, 2009 at 3:42 pm
“Lets take this opportunity to make sure we elect a governor who will build more highways that cut through cities instead of creating opportunities for people to live, work and play in Intown neighborhoods.”
If one is unable to understand the concept of tunnels, what business do they have dictating transportation policy.
September 1st, 2009 at 3:44 pm
I repeat:
Douglas, please. Keep your failed auto-centric transportation notions to your silly DC blog.
September 1st, 2009 at 3:46 pm
RB- I’ll take that as an admission that you are absolutely wrong but lack the character to admit so.
September 1st, 2009 at 3:53 pm
cityzen –
Historically gas taxes have done little to reduce congestion. A more viable option is a congestion surcharge. Charging a small fee, say $5 to $15 per day for the use of I-75, I-85, or GA-400 inside the perimiter would go a long way toward moving people on to 285, surface streets, and MARTA.
September 1st, 2009 at 4:22 pm
Douglas, it would be delusional to take it that way, so to be consistent with your other viewpoints, I think you should.
September 1st, 2009 at 4:24 pm
While the extension of public transportation is a noble goal in itself, it doesn’t necessarily address the issue of through traffic directly. After all, while the rush hours are brutal, I’ve also come to a complete stop on the connector at 1am.
Does anyone know of any studies that specifically address the breakdown of local vs. through traffic? Where is the bulk of the through traffic originating, and where is it going? How much local traffic would have to be offset to other transportation modes in order to accommodate any expected growth of through traffic, based upon the population forecasts of the entire southeastern region?
It seems like we need to have a grasp on those types of numbers before we can realistically determine the best solution(s).
September 1st, 2009 at 4:28 pm
RB-
I have pointed out that road tunnels can be designed to accommodate trucks, buses even trains, so does not the characterization of delusion refer to your reflex over thought?
The idea of a congestion charge would be good for funding such multi-mode tunnels.
September 1st, 2009 at 4:28 pm
To all the tunnel proponents – haven’t you noticed that Atlanta sits on a giant bedrock of granite? Good luck tunneling through that shit. Why don’t you try tunneling a freeway under your own goddamn neighborhoods and then let us know how that works out?
September 1st, 2009 at 4:48 pm
Granite is stable, unlike the molasses like soil that Boston contended with for the I-90 extension beneath Gillette Channel.
You must be ignorant of the advances in tunnel drilling since the 1970s allowing lengthier tunnels before the machinery wears out, hence making it far more economical then say the time of the greatest amount of interstate highway highway construction during the 1950s and 1960s.
September 1st, 2009 at 5:13 pm
And you must be a dumbass if you don’t think it will be incredibly expensive, noisy, and damaging to the urban fabric above due to vibrations during blasting and tunneling.
It’s a boondoggle loser. Deal with it.
September 1st, 2009 at 5:25 pm
This nonsense proposed by our state insurance commissioner is reason enough to make sure that he does NOT get into the governor’s mansion! He’s an idiot and nothing more than a power monger! Apparently, he has no regard for historic preservation, or any knowledge as to the rich history of Inman Park and the wonderful quality of life it provides for it’s residents. Oxendine is a joke!
September 1st, 2009 at 5:25 pm
Better to let engineers make that determination rather then the neurotic.
September 1st, 2009 at 5:26 pm
I had a tunnel troll show up on my blog a week or two ago out of the blue. Why am I not surprised to find one here?
September 1st, 2009 at 5:29 pm
Hey Douglas, have you ever tried to blast through granite? Trust this Georgian, every building above your tunnel would be affected.
September 1st, 2009 at 6:03 pm
The new tunnel mole machines don’t relay upon blasting, but rather cutters made of superior metals then previously, so they go further.
September 1st, 2009 at 6:15 pm
I suppose I’ll get slammed for this, but the answer my friends is d) all of the above. Roads aren’t the savior nor the enemy, nor is public transit. We need a MIX of public transit (made up of heavy rail, light rail, and buses) and road to solve the problem. I take MARTA everyday. I like it, but I realize it isn’t for everyone and it won’t help those through drivers. Why not look at a tunnel? If they can tunnel under the English Channel ANYTHING is possible. Plus, MARTA has already shown Atlanta can be tunneled under. Does it ultimately make sense? I dunno, but why not study it? A traffic surcharge is a great idea to encourage through drivers to take 285 when they can. A northern arc is a great idea as well. And yes, more, much more public transit. Expand the line down into Clayton County. Split the line at College Park and run the other line all the way to Palmetto. Run it into Gwinnet and up to Alpharetta. Perhaps if we tunnel under the city for cars at the same time we can build more MARTA lines, like a branch to run up Briarcliff to Emory and then to the Doraville station. Let’s be open minded.
September 1st, 2009 at 9:16 pm
I’d hate to see fewer houses for the criminals from East Atlanta to have available for burglary!
September 1st, 2009 at 10:31 pm
Douglas, you are correct about the technical capabilities of new tunnel mole machines (there was a fascinating article in the New Yorker about it recently). However, just because you can, doesn’t mean you should.
Atlanta does not need ways for more cars to get into or through it. It needs more ways for people to into and through it effectively without their cars.
So, if you want to support the mole tunnel excavation business (which seems to be your primary purpose) then let’s talk about where the next underground Marta lines should go.
September 1st, 2009 at 10:34 pm
Let’s see, we don’t have any money to paint a few bike lanes on city streets, but we may have BILLIONS to drill tunnels into a massive bedrock of granite under Atlanta.
I know that I’m no fancy economist fella, but that don’t make no sense.
September 1st, 2009 at 10:35 pm
I should have also added ‘or no money to fix busted up sidewalks’ to the above post.
September 1st, 2009 at 11:21 pm
RB-
Prioritizing rail transit over highways in Atlanta makes sense to me because the area has so much more in highways then rail transit (the area seems to be the opposite of say Washington DC which has an excelent WMATA rail system but an extremely truncated highway system with NO compete north-south route).
Also, it is extremely reasonable to demand fixing striping and sidewalks, given the relative expenses.
But that does not men dismissing any additional highway links out of hand for all time, or likewise anti tunnel hysteria without consideration of specific routes.
As another poster said, study all of it, and please check out that Harvard proposal with the road tunnels with levels for autos and levels for transit.
And I am glad for people to see the links I posted from CosMobile, as the MSM generally does a crappyjob of educating people about infratsructure advancements.
September 2nd, 2009 at 10:54 am
I lived through 8 years of the Big Dig in Boston. I don’t care if it’s drilling or cut and cover, it’s still going to be tremendously disruptive to the city and will take twice as long and cost twice as much (at best) than the estimates the tunnel advocates will float around. Plus a Boston Globe study found that traffic congestion and commute times actually increased rather than decreasing after the completion of the project.
http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2008/11/16/big_dig_pushes_bottlenecks_outward/
And in case we all forgot, the tunnel in Boston had a portion of the ceiling collapse and kill someone.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Dig_ceiling_collapse
No thank you.