OPEN THREAD: The CNN-YouTube debate in St. Pete
November 28, 2007 at 1:50 pm by Wayne Garcia
The 25-foot HDTV screen at the Mahaffey for the YouTube debate
(photo: Wayne Garcia’s crappy TREO)
Lots of stuff going on in downtown St. Petersburg with the GOP debate tonight, and Creative Loafing’s non-pack journalism truth will shine through like a beacon in the night.
Bullshit aside, we’ll have four reporters on hand at all the rallies, straw polls, protests, fat-cat parties, the debate Spin Room and most of the major restrooms in the area to give complete coverage of the real issues, e.g. why does the MSM so love Mike Huckabee, considering he was virulently anti-press as governor, even vindictively pulling one newspaper off his office’s e-mail distribution list? Or how he worked so hard to free a rapist? Or why Rudy Giuliani is loading up his campaign with dangerous war-mongering neocons like Norman Podhoretz and talking tough about Iran? Or why Big Coal is sponsoring the debate? Or what is feels like to stand near Chuck Norris in the Spin Room?
Post a comment if you have a question you want us to pursue, or if you are at one of the rallies or protests and have a perspective to add? I’ll add coverage in comments as the night progresses.
CLICK COMMENTS to read ongoing updates from CL reporters and others.
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November 28th, 2007 at 3:50 pm
Are Republicans, initially wary of the YouTube format, embracing the opportunity? Mitt is, at least.
His supporters today got an e-mail telling them of the special coverage they will get at the campaign’s website:
Continuing our campaign’s tradition of engaging with voters online, via video, we will be offering behind-the-scenes footage from the debate hall in St. Petersburg, Florida. We will be live streaming responses during and after the debate at Debate Central on MittRomney.com.
There will also be a special surprise from the five Romney brothers! So, don’t forget to visit MittRomney.com while you watch the debate at 8pm EST.
November 28th, 2007 at 3:53 pm
Oh, from yesterday, here’s evidence that if you are a Pinellas Republican and NOT a fan of Rudy Giuliani this is not your election cycle. Pinellas GOP Chairman Tony DiMatteo, a transplanted NY homer for Rudy, made it official yesterday in an e-mail from the campaign:
Pinellas County Republican Party Chairman=20
Tony DiMatteo Joins Giuliani Campaign
=20
Winter Park, FL - The Rudy Giuliani Presidential Committee today
announced Pinellas County Republican Executive Committee Chairman Tony
DiMatteo is endorsing Mayor Giuliani. DiMatteo will help expand the
campaign’s grassroots efforts in Pinellas County.=20
=20
“Rudy is the one candidate with the experience to keep the country
moving forward. He can win both Florida’s primary and general elections.
I’m honored to join other leaders from Pinellas County who are joining
the Mayor’s campaign,” said DiMatteo.
=20
The campaign previously announced endorsements from Pinellas County
including Sheriff Jim Coats and State Representatives Peter Nehr and
Rich Glorioso. Pinellas County will be the host for Wednesday’s
CNN-YouTube Republican presidential debate.
About Tony DiMatteo:
=20
DiMatteo has served as the Chairman of the Pinellas County Republican
Executive Committee since 2004 and has been active in Florida politics
for over 15 years. He worked for Ronald Reagan’s 1980 campaign in South
Carolina. DiMatteo operates a pest control business in Pinellas County
where he lives with his wife Susan.=20
=20
Pinellas County Leaders Supporting Mayor Giuliani:*
=20
Pinellas County Sheriff Jim Coats
State Representative Peter Nehr
State Representative Rich Glorioso=20
Pinellas County Commissioner John Morroni
Pinellas County Tax Collector Diane Nelson
Former Speaker Pro Tempore Leslie Waters
Mayor of Safety Harbor Andy Steingold
Mayor of Belleair Bluffs Chris Arbutine
Mayor of Oldsmar Jim Ronecker
Vice Mayor of St. Petersburg Beach Mike Finnerty
Tarpon Springs Mayor Beverly Billiris
Former Mayor of Reddington Shores J.J. Beyrouti=20
Commissioner of Safety Harbor James McCormick
Commissioner of Safety Harbor Joe Ayoub
Governor Crist Campaign Chair for Pinellas County Margie Milford
Member of the Pinellas County Juvenile Welfare Board John Millford
Vice President Pinellas County Veterans Liaison Counsel Anthony Rizzo
Florida State University Board of Governors Member Frank Harrison
University of South Florida Student Body President Barclay Harles
=20
*Previously announced=20
=20
Titles and affiliations are provided for identification purposes only.=20
###
Paid for by the Rudy Giuliani Presidential Committee, Inc (c) 2006-2007
http://www.JoinRudy2008.com =20
November 28th, 2007 at 5:06 pm
I always find it amusing that the Guiliani campaign never lists the president of Log Cabin Republicans of Tampa Bay as a supporter.
November 28th, 2007 at 5:24 pm
DROP BALLPARKS NOT BOMBS
Ahhh, the simple ironies of downtown St. Petersburg.
On what must be one of its biggest (if not THE biggest) news day ever, the Rays unveiled their latest scheme to have poor taxpayers give them a bunch of tax dollars for a new ballpark. The website for the unveiling is majorleaguedowntown.com, go and take a look and get ahead of the curve by sending the Rays a check for, oh, $2,000 or $3,000 now.
Right across the street from the Rays dog-and-pony at Al Lang Field (to hell with corporate sponsorship, it will always be that) homeless and peace activists lined the sidewalk down from the Starbucks, protesting Mayor Rick’s tactics toward the homeless, in part.
Then, a few hundred yards away, the media geared up for the 8pm CNN-YouTube debate. I’m scheduled to pontificate live on ABC Action News Ch. 28 at about 5:40pm, so be sure to set your TV and have dinner cooked by then. You won’t want to miss it. I might even be able to blurt out Jim’s endorsement of Rudy.
November 28th, 2007 at 5:53 pm
GOV CHARLIE APPEARS…
… right after he spoke live with CNN’s Wolf Blitzer. Charlie appeared quite pleased to have FLA’s day in the Republican sun right in his ol’ hometown, and he pooh-poohed a question about the GOP stripping half of the FLA convention delegates as “silly.”
“Nobody’s talking about it,” he answered, “because it doesn’t matter.”
His advice to debaters: “Just speak from their hearts.”
Is he upset that his YouTube question about the CAT fund issue won’t be on tonight? “It’s a citizen’s debate,” and he’s already talked with the major candidates about the issue. “They get more favorable every day” on a national catastrophe fund, he said.
More interesting than his Spin Room quickie was his response to Blitzer about a new CNN poll that shows Hillary Clinton beating Rudy Giuliani in a hypothetical general election in Florida, 51 percent to 42 percent.
“This is fluid,” he deflected. “We need to monitor what happens day by day.”
November 28th, 2007 at 7:10 pm
WHAT’S WRONG WITH THIS POLL?
From yesterday’s CNN FLA poll:
—–
BASED ON 300 LIKELY REPUBLICAN PRIMARY VOTERS — SAMPLING ERROR: +/- 5.5% PTS.
1. If the presidential primary in Florida were held today, please tell me which of the following people you would be most likely to support — former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani, former Arkansas Governor Mike Huckabee, California Congressman Duncan Hunter, Arizona Senator John McCain, Texas Congressman Ron Paul, former Massachusetts Governor Mitt Romney, Colorado Congressman Tom Tancredo, or former Tennessee Senator Fred Thompson? (RANDOM ORDER)
Nov. 25-26
2007
Former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani 38%
Massachusetts Governor Mitt Romney 17%
Arizona Senator John McCain 11%
Former Tennessee Senator Fred Thompson 11%
Former Arkansas Governor Mike Huckabee 9%
Texas Congressman Ron Paul 5%
California Congressman Duncan Hunter 1%
Colorado Congressman Tom Tancredo *
No opinion 9%
AND
9. Do you think abortion should be legal under any circumstances, legal under only certain circumstances, or illegal in all circumstances?
QUESTION 9
Likely Likely
All Democratic Republican
Adults Primary Voters Primary Voters
Legal under any circumstances 27% 37% 19%
Legal under only certain circumstances 47% 44% 61%
Illegal in all circumstances 23% 18% 19%
No opinion 3% 1% 2%
—–
In addition to the way-too-small statewide sample of 300 (it should be at least N=600), they are likely (self proclaimed) voters rather than registered voters. What does that typically mean? Too little weight for the real hardcore primary voters. And Question 9 proves it: since when did only 19 percent of GOP primary voters say they opposed abortion in all circumstances?
Best guess (and that’s all it is) is that the poll undercounted support for evangelical faves like Huckabee — and maybe the Rear Admiral as well.
November 28th, 2007 at 7:22 pm
As the GOP readies its debate within the next 2 hours, the Democrats are canceling one they had planned for Cali, blaming the writer’s strike. Story here.
November 28th, 2007 at 7:36 pm
How big do you think this story is going to be for Giuliani? The adultery is old news, the creative accounting is new:
http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003678650
…Politico, the D.C. newspaper and Web site, reveals today that as New York mayor, Rudy Giuliani “billed obscure city agencies for tens of thousands of dollars in security expenses amassed during the time when he was beginning an extramarital relationship with future wife Judith Nathan in the Hamptons, according to previously undisclosed government records.
November 28th, 2007 at 8:16 pm
drkptt — the Giuliani story is all the buzz of the press corps here. won’t be in one of the video questions but certainly is fodder for his opponents, so we’ll see if they lob it in.
November 28th, 2007 at 8:21 pm
John King of CNN now reporting that Rudy’s fmr chief of staff is defending the expenses as legit and part of the job of being a 24/7 mayor. Knocking off a little on the side, sure that’s mayoral … if you’re Joe Quimby.
November 28th, 2007 at 8:41 pm
CL’s Joe Bardi reports from the Ron Paul rally at the Palladium Theater that the good doc has a pretty good crowd, about 2/3 full with more people waiting outside.
November 28th, 2007 at 8:42 pm
And unfortunately I have been in the press room for the past 30 mins being forced to watch the nationalistic drum beating of Lou Dobbs.
November 28th, 2007 at 9:06 pm
Mayor Rick just came onstage to stand and have his photo taken with all the candidates in the gaggle photo op and he wins the “I’m taller than Fred Thompson” award for tonight
November 28th, 2007 at 9:10 pm
First video: the musical intro. We’ll leave the light on for ya
November 28th, 2007 at 9:15 pm
RUDY AND MITT GET INTO IT HARDCORE
2nd question: NY’er asks if Rudy will continue “aid and abet the flight of illegal questions into this country”
Rudy: we allowed the children of illegal aliens to go to school so they wouldn’t be out on the streets en masse. we reported thousands and thousands of illegals to INS and they were deported. but we had some exceptions because the federal govt wasn’t getting the job done.
Mitt: It was absolutely a sanctuary city. Rudy sued to keep it that way. Illegals are criminals simply by being here.
Rudy: Mitt generally criticizes when he has a worse record himself. At his own home illegal immigrants were being employed, and there were six sanctuary cities in his state. he did nothing about them. I would say he had Sanctuary Mansion instead of Sanctuary City. “They were under your nose.”
November 28th, 2007 at 9:19 pm
Yer gonna hear “strengthen the border” and “secure the borders” a helluva lot tonight
November 28th, 2007 at 9:19 pm
Damn, Fred whacked Rudy obliquely on Bernie Kerik, all the gloves are off, and the GOP shit is on!!
November 28th, 2007 at 9:20 pm
McCain: “This whole debate [on immigration] saddens me a little bit.”
November 28th, 2007 at 9:22 pm
Wayne, when liveblogging, it is best to put the updates in the posts. Not the comments. Many people don’t read comments.
November 28th, 2007 at 9:31 pm
First 30 mins devoted to immigration.
Jerks on immigration: Mitt, Thompson, Tancredo
Reasonable on immigration: Rudy, Huckabee, McCain
November 28th, 2007 at 9:32 pm
FInally, a Ron Paul question: the “conspiracy” that your supporters believe about the Council on Foreign Relations et al. to form a North American union, do you really believe in that?
Paul: It’s a ‘quote’ conspiracy of ideas. There is a move on toward a North American union. It’s a contest of ideologies.
November 28th, 2007 at 9:33 pm
I could still hear the Ron Paul supporters as I trodded through the puddles, all the way back to Central and First Street.
If they are any indication, Ron Paul has this primary in the bag. From the “signers,” as I like to call them, to the yachts and the two planes out by the Vinoy, it seems like all you hear is Ron Paul.
Walking the streets of downtown today, you wouldn’t think anyone else was even running. I might have seen two dozen competitors’ signs and more than 350 Ron Paul signs.
They were everywhere.
The only competition I seemed to see was outside the Mahaffey. One corner had about 50 Ron Paul supporters, while on the other stood roughly 100 Rudy Giuliani supporters.
They spent most of the time I was there (7:10 to about 8) trying to out-yell each other, but the rain drowned most of them out pretty quickly. By the time I left, there were only 20 or so signers on either side, each trying to last longer than the other corner.
But by then, I noticed the rain was soaking through my camera bag.
So what did I get from the rallies and protests? Certainly not that Mitt Romney led the straw poll!
November 28th, 2007 at 9:34 pm
Paul said: “Information is out there, and if you look for it you’ll realize our national sovereignty is under threat.”
Somebody takes Dr Ron’s Internet account away please.
November 28th, 2007 at 9:36 pm
Thanks, Kat. A live report from our very wet intern. Now that’s journalism.
November 28th, 2007 at 9:37 pm
From the Thompson campaign, e-mail at 8:24 pm:
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE:
CONTACT: Karen Hanretty
November 28, 2007
ROMNEY AND SANCTUARY CITIES
REALITY CHECK:
AS GOVERNOR, MITT ROMNEY ALLOWED SANCTUARY CITIES IN MASSACHUSETTS Cambridge, Orleans, And Brewster
Cambridge, Massachusetts, Re-declared Itself A Sanctuary City On May 8, 2006. (Yvonne Abraham, “City’s Sanctuary Status Mocked,” Boston Globe, 7/5/06)
A Congressional Research Service Report Listed Both Cambridge And Orleans As Sanctuary Cities. (Lisa M. Seghetti et.al., “Enforcing Immigration Law: The Role of State and Local Law Enforcement,” Congressional Research Service, RL32270, 11/14/06)
A November 2003 Resolution Passed In Brewster, Massachusetts Forbids Town Officials From “Enforcing Immigration Matters.”
(Town Resolution, http://www.bordc.org/detail.php?id=197, accessed 10/1/07)
ROMNEY’S RHETORIC AND RECORD
RHETORIC At A Recent Presidential Debate, Romney Claimed That He Fought Sanctuary Cities By Having His State Troopers “Enforce The Law.” “In my case, as soon as I learned about a program in the department of ICE that we could have our state police authorized to enforce the law, I did just that so that in sanctuary cities in our state — and nonsanctuary cities — the law would be enforced.” (Mitt Romney, GOP Presidential Debate, Durham, NH, 9/7/07)
RECORD In Reality, Romney Did Not Seek To Do This Until June Of 2006. “Gov. Mitt Romney is seeking an agreement with federal authorities that would give Massachusetts state troopers expanded powers to arrest undocumented immigrants for immigration violations. The Republican governor has instructed legal counsel to contact Immigration and Customs Enforcement to begin the process that would give state police a way of ‘finding and detaining illegal aliens in the course of ordinary business,’ Romney said.” (”Mass. State Troopers May Soon Arrest Undocumented Immigrants,” Associated Press State & Local Wire, 6/21/06)
And Massachusetts State Police Weren’t Actually Allowed To Enforce Immigration Laws Until December 13, 2006, With Nineteen Days Left In Romney’s Term.
“Governor Mitt Romney signed a controversial agreement yesterday with federal authorities that will allow specially trained Massachusetts State troopers to arrest suspected illegal immigrants and charge them with violating US immigration laws.” (Jonathan Saltzman, “Romney Ok’s Pact So Troopers Can Arrest Illegal Immigrants,” Boston Globe, 12/14/06)
###
November 28th, 2007 at 9:39 pm
From the Rear Admiral, 11 mins later:
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE:
CONTACT: Press Office
November 28, 2007
FRED THOMPSON: SETTING THE RECORD STRAIGHT ON HUCKABEE’s IMMIGRATION CLAIMS
Supported amnesty bill at the federal level.
Supported President Bush’s immigration plan and claimed that opposition to Bush’s proposal was driven by “racism or nativism” and that it wasn’t amnesty. (Ralph Hallow, “Huckabee ‘Serious’ About Presidency,” Washington Times, 5/17/06)
Championed an effort to give illegal immigrants taxpayer-funded college scholarships and in-state tuition.
Championed an effort in Arkansas to give in-state tuition at state colleges and taxpayer-funded scholarships to illegal immigrants, similar to the DREAM Act proposal at the federal level. (Laura Kellams, “Senators research U.S. law on aliens,” Arkansas Democrat-Gazette, 1/27/05)
Led an effort in opposition to increased citizenship verification procedures for voting and public benefits and called the legislation “race-baiting”.
When Republican state senators in Arkansas proposed legislation modeled after Arizona’s Proposition 200 [to require proof of citizenship for voting and public benefits], “Huckabee described it as ‘inflammatory … race-baiting … demagoguery.’ He said the bill, which seeks to forbid public assistance and voting rights to illegal immigrants, ‘inflames those who are racist and bigots and makes them think there’s a real problem. But there’s not.’” (”Governor says anti-illegals measure could scare off companies like Toyota,” Associated Press, 2/3/05)
Opposed a raid on an Arkansas employer that utilized illegal immigrants.
Opposed a raid on illegal immigrants in an Arkansas poultry plant even though calls to his office were “about 1,000 to one” against his stance. (Melissa Nelson, “Huckabee Risks Political Fortunes To Denounce Immigration Raid,” Associated Press, 8/5/05)
Championed the effort to open a Mexican Consulate in Arkansas to issue identification cards to legal and illegal residents.
Helped lead the effort to open a Mexican Consulate in Little Rock to issue Matricula Consular cards to Mexicans living in the U.S. (including those in the U.S. illegally). Many banks, including some in Arkansas, accept the card as a valid form of identification. (Jon Gambrell, “Ark. Candidates Criticize Mexican Matricula Cards,” AP, 10/18/06)
###
November 28th, 2007 at 9:42 pm
Ahh, yes, the Fair Tax raises its weird little head. Dr Paul and Huck would get rid of the IRS. Huge applause for that from audience. McCain gets the followup from the cartoon Uncle Sam about Fair Tax and McCain is against 30+ percent sales taxes that Fair Tax would bring.
McCain then hauls off and whacks Ron Paul’s foreign policy (which is none, he is an isolationist): “We allowed Hitler to come to power with that kind of attitude on isolationism.”
November 28th, 2007 at 9:43 pm
Ron Paul: “I’m not an isolationist.”
November 28th, 2007 at 9:43 pm
Richard Nixon’s ghost: “I am not a dead crook.”
November 28th, 2007 at 9:44 pm
Next question:
Sweet mumbling Jesus, it’s the High Priest of Trickle Down, Grover Norquist trying to get a promise for no tax increases.
November 28th, 2007 at 10:08 pm
Just getting in from the circus that was downtown St. Pete:
The UNITY demonstration — also known as the Rise Up! The System Is Broken event — had a fairly large turnout.
My estimate: 150.
However, the Ron Paul contingent, criss-crossing downtown in the Ron Paul “Magic Bus” (my words, not theirs), was surprisingly absent. I could hear some disgruntled progressives rambling about “those crazy Ron Paul” supporters and their decision to go it alone.
However, homeless advocates and a few homeless kept the mood upbeat toward the beginning of the Unity March by clomping down Beach Drive in masse with a banner chastizing the city: Hey Mayor Baker, Jesus was homeless, too.
Check out pictures on http://www.blurbex.com.
November 28th, 2007 at 10:23 pm
By the way, St. Pete:
It seems every cop is in downtown St. Pete tonight. Shook the hands of a few officers that normally patrol Midtown at night.
If you’re going to do anything, shall we say, legally-challenged, tonight seems to be the night.
November 28th, 2007 at 10:32 pm
McCain vs. Romney on torture: McCain is against it and he should know. Romney uses the same waffle language that gave us Abu Ghraib, waterboarding and the entire Bush Admin legal strategy
November 28th, 2007 at 10:36 pm
GET OUT THE TIN FOIL HATS
Paul on conspiracies:
YOUTUBE QUESTION: Good evening, candidates. This is (inaudible)
from Arlington, Texas, and this question is for Ron Paul.
I’ve met a lot of your supporters online, but I’ve noticed that a
good number of them seem to buy into this conspiracy theory regarding
the Council of Foreign Relations, and some plan to make a North
American union by merging the United States with Canada and Mexico.
These supporters of yours seem to think that you also believe in
this theory. So my question to you is: Do you really believe in all
this, or are people just putting words in your mouth?
COOPER: Congressman Paul, 90 seconds.
PAUL: Well, it all depends on what you mean by “all of this.”
the CFR exists, the Trilateral Commission exists. And it’s a, quote,
“conspiracy of ideas.” This is an ideological battle. Some people
believe in globalism. Others of us believe in national sovereignty.
And there is a move on toward a North American union, just like
early on there was a move on for a European Union, and it eventually
ended up.
PAUL: And there is a move on toward a North American Union, just
like early on there was a move on for a European Union, and eventually
ended up. So we had NAFTA and moving toward a NAFTA highway. These
are real things. It’s not somebody made these up. It’s not a
conspiracy. They don’t talk about it, and they might not admit about
it, but there’s been money spent on it. There was legislation passed
in the Texas legislature unanimously to put a halt on it. They’re
planning on millions of acres taken by eminent domain for an
international highway from Mexico to Canada, which is going to make
the immigration problem that much worse.
So it’s not so much a secretive conspiracy, it’s a contest
between ideologies, whether we believe in our institutions here, our
national sovereignty, our Constitution, or are we going to further
move into the direction of international government, more U.N.
PAUL: You know, this country goes to war under U.N. resolutions.
I don’t like big government in Washington, so I don’t like this trend
toward international government. We have a WTO that wants to control
our drug industry, our nutritional products. So, I’m against all
that.
But it’s not so much as a sinister conspiracy. It’s just
knowledge is out there. If we look for it, you’ll realize that our
national sovereignty is under threat.
COOPER: Congressman Paul, thank you.
(APPLAUSE)
November 28th, 2007 at 10:39 pm
Walking around downtown St. Pete, I stopped several people to ask their opinions of the debates.
But before I could get out my name and who I’m affiliated with, they all — every last one of them — asked:
“Are you with Ron Paul?”
Say what you want about the Republican from Texas, but his supporters are making sure the man has some name recognition.
November 28th, 2007 at 10:43 pm
Yeah, same thing with Amway and Scientology, some would say
November 28th, 2007 at 10:49 pm
Best media question of the night, before the debate, from Trib columnist Dan Ruth to immigration-friendly Sen. Mel Martinez, R-Florida: “Senator, would you be willing to serve in the cabinet of a Tancredo administration?”
November 28th, 2007 at 10:51 pm
Romney, who supported gay marriage in Mass., says “now is not the time” for gays in the military. Anderson Cooper pressed him for an answer three times as to whether he has changed his position and/or whether he looks forward to the day when gays CAN serve.
November 28th, 2007 at 10:51 pm
A shout-out to former CL’er Dawn up in the cold, cold north, watching us blog this crazy st pete thing
November 28th, 2007 at 10:53 pm
Jim — finally, the LCR question!!!!
Even Huckabee would accept their support, but he totally disagrees with LCR on gay marriage and other issues. MItt? Mitt? damned, they didnt ask anyone else to answer
November 28th, 2007 at 10:55 pm
Forget education and community investment! Romney’s response to black-on-black crime is apparently a dating service for unwed mothers. Fixing a deep social problem can be fun and exciting.
November 28th, 2007 at 10:57 pm
Romney is a bidnessman and he wants to fuel the restaurant and movie industry for all those dates.
November 28th, 2007 at 10:57 pm
I’m off to the Spin Room, back after I am fully spun.
November 28th, 2007 at 11:31 pm
Check out http://www.blurbex.com for some more on the outside debate protest. Checked out on it during the debates and it looks effectively over. Unless you’re somewhere I’m not.
November 28th, 2007 at 11:35 pm
I’ve just been informed I made a brief appearance on the news. Now I will get paid for the night! I have my proof!
November 28th, 2007 at 11:58 pm
ike Fox, one of the many organizers of the Rise Up! The System is Broken demonstration at Pioneer Park had a few comments as he packed up his signs tonight.
“I think it went fabulously,†says Fox, who even after 12 hours of preparing for this event, jumps around animatedly. “Even though you had divergent views, everybody seemed respectful of each other.â€
He was also pleased with the “boatload of media.â€
“There were a lot of strong activists here,†said the Pinellas County Democratic Executive Committee member and state coordinator for the Progressive Democrats of America. “A lot of very strong activists marching together. Community was built today.â€
Fox is hoping that the contacts made today will make Tampa Bay’s progressive community a force to be reckoned with. “It’s a good time to be a Democrat in Tampa Bay,†he added.
November 29th, 2007 at 12:09 am
Results are in from the Rise Up! The System is Broken event.
They conducted two polls. One was your basic plurality poll; the other, an instant run-off option.
Tallies for the first poll are:
Ron Paul: 240 votes
Dennis Kucinich: 26
Barak Obama: 13
John Edwards: 10
The Instant Run-Off poll tallies are:
Ron Paul takes it with 174 votes. And the Democrats lead with Kucinich at 29 votes and Obama at 22.
Now you know where your Tampa Bay progressives are standing.
November 29th, 2007 at 12:20 am
Catching up on a few things at the beginning of debate, like this little line from Gov. Crist:
“It’s great to have this in Florida and my hometown of St. Petersburg. This is truly the people’s debate.”
Hey Charlie, that whole “the people’s” line is getting a little worn out.
November 29th, 2007 at 12:22 am
Wow, the Rise Up people are predicting winners about as good as Linksy in our office football pool.
November 29th, 2007 at 12:23 am
Just posted a photo and quote from Chuck Norris under separate post. Will write my analysis of tonight under another post as well, but it might be a little while as I move out my stuff from Mahaffey. Time to break this media room down.
November 29th, 2007 at 1:22 am
Notes On The Ron Paul Meet-up at the Palladium:
Just some quick reactions before I sleep off my Ron Paul buzz:
—The crowd filled the Palladium’s big room, with 40 or so more Paul supporters watching the debate in a downstairs room.
—The debate was projected onto a big screen over the stage. Watching the debate in this environment was akin to participating in the most political episode of Mystery Science Theater 3000 ever.
—#1 thing shouted at the screen (at all candidates but Paul): “Liar!”
—Funniest thing yelled at the screen: “Go back to TV you loser!” during Fred Thompson’s first answer.
—At 8:15 p.m. people began shushing the most vocal supporters, as the debate was becoming impossible to hear.
—The crowd was not what I would assume is a usual gathering of political junkies. Mostly white, roughly 70% male, very young (although the full spectrum of ages was represented). I saw only one guy in a tie until the official campaign types started showing up just after 11 p.m.
—Number of guys in the crowd who had megaphones: Two. (Isn’t is always a good time when someone in a crowd starts blaring a police siren from a megaphone?)
—Favorite T-Shirts: “Ron Paul is the shit”; “The Government is trying to kill me.”
—Best Dressed: Harry McKay of Tampa, who was wearing full colonial period costume and delivered Patrick Henry’s famous “Give me liberty or give me death!” speech from the stage in the break between the end of the debate and when Paul arrived.
—Those assembled didn”t much care for the Federal Reserve.
—Charlie Crist was roundly boo’d during his debate-opening comments.
—Paul didn’t get a question until 8:31 p.m., on the “conspiracy” to form a North American Union. Not surprisingly, the crowd loved his answer.
—Strangest thing I saw someone carrying around: A boat oar with a Ron Paul sign taped to the end.
—Best move by the organizers: A little over an hour in, Pizza was delivered and sold to the crowd outside for $1 a slice.
—Paul arrived at 11:35 p.m. to a rockstar welcome. He had his granddaughter in tow.
—If this event was in any way indicative of what the election season will be like, we should be in for a very entertaining 2008.
—I kept asking people what they were going to do after the meet-up was over. Everyone said the same thing: “I’m goin’ home. I gotta work tomorrow!”
Me too, guys. Me too.
November 29th, 2007 at 3:39 am
It is a shame that the first question Ron Paul gets is about the conspiracy stuff.
wasnt it here on blurbex that we had a link to the former Mexican president Fox statement about the Amero. This ties into the nafta highway… etc…
My one concern with Ron Paul is if he is too much a theocon. Unfortunately there hasnt been much banter about it, but i would still like a little more clarification.
November 29th, 2007 at 3:53 am
I would like some clarification on what a ‘theocon’ is. I’m assuming something to do with religion….?
November 29th, 2007 at 1:03 pm
From wikipedia.org: “Theocon is a term sometimes used in United States political rhetoric to describe a person whose conservative ideology includes a belief that religion should play a major role in forming public policy.”
November 29th, 2007 at 1:06 pm
I haven’t seen much about Ron Paul being a theocon. Not sure that label wouldn’t apply more to Huckabee, but I will see what I can dig up on Paul. Hard to reconcile his prev nomination as Libertarian candidate with the idea of him being a theocon
November 29th, 2007 at 2:08 pm
Wayne, that is what i would have thought too (RE: libertarian vs theocon)… but i have heard a bit of the internet banter (as reliable or not that source of second hand information is :-)
not only would i say that Huck is more the theocon than my impressions of Paul, but i would argue that Obama could fit into those shoes as well.
http://obama.senate.gov/speech/060628-call_to_renewal/
November 29th, 2007 at 3:55 pm
Folks, having the coal industry sponsor a debate isn’t any different than if one of the sponsors was Toyota.
Coal provides 50% of America’s electricity, and the companies wanted to make sure people knew that, in addition to telling them what the industry is doing to make the coal-fired plants cleaner.
November 29th, 2007 at 4:33 pm
First, while Big Coal has every right to spin its message, the blatant attempt to influence Gov. Crist, who is pursuing a strongly green agenda, by sponsoring the RPOF’s debate is inappropriate, or at least worth pointing out.
Then there is the matter of the scope of the coal-plant explosion. Granted this is a three-year old Christian Science Monitor article, but here is an excerpt:
“But the move back to coal raises environmental concerns. Mr. McIlvaine estimates that if 50 of the 94 planned projects are built, they would add roughly 30 gigawatts or 10 percent of base load generating capacity nationwide. Using industry rules of thumb, he estimates coal consumption would rise about 10 million tons, or 1 percent, from today’s 1 billion tons annually. That, in turn, would add 120 million cubic feet of exhaust gases from the stacks every minute of every day for decades to what is currently vented.”
You can read the entire piece here.
NPR ,earlier this year wrote about how the coal rush is fueled by fears of a future carbon tax.
And if you are inclined to read a more-activist account, try this very recent post about how Big Coal launched a PR campaign and its associated website that David embedded in his comment name.
November 29th, 2007 at 4:53 pm
Hey jj,.
I linked to the story about Vincente Fox and the Amero. I have no reason to doubt Paul’s assertions that a “North American Union” is something some people are trying to make happen. It’s the large helping of paranoia that comes with the assertion that makes me question the whole thing.
November 30th, 2007 at 12:02 pm
Clean is obviously a relative term. What might be “clean†for most people might not be “clean enough†for you. The fact is, all energy resources (including coal) have their environmental challenges, and we’re continuing to make progress on using technology to reduce emissions and make coal a cleaner energy resource to meet America’s energy need. We are working with Department of Energy on a $1.5 billion project to build a coal plant that captures close to 100% of sulfur dioxide, nitrogen oxide and mercury – and provide for the capture and storage of carbon dioxide (a greenhouse gas)
-David, from Americans for Balanced Energy Choices
November 30th, 2007 at 12:39 pm
thanks for ID’ing yourself.
December 1st, 2007 at 10:05 am
Wayne Garcia,
Please tell me, where do moron’s like you come from? I don’t understand how someone could be so uninformed or ignorant.
December 3rd, 2007 at 1:28 pm
Well, originally from New Jersey but I grew up in Fort Lauderdale.