At Odds Over Dave Matthews
July 7th, 2008 by Eric Snider in NewsA reader named Ron Michael took serious offense at my preview of this week’s Dave Matthews show (which ran in last week’s CL). He sent me an e-mail, but I figured I’d give him a more public say. I applaud his passion, although he’s considerably off base in some of his more personal attacks on me. At any rate, I invite you folks to weigh in as well.
Here’s what I wrote:
Jam at the Amp
By now, I realize it’s a waste of effort to point out that Dave Matthews is a substandard talent, especially in proportion to the adoration he receives from his hordes of fans.
It’s pointless to maintain that Dave Matthews does little more than front a run-of-the-mill jazz-fusion band, that all he contributes besides mediocre songs is a grating voice and some serviceable acoustic guitar chops.
It’s pointless because thousands and thousands of you have already bought your tickets and are eagerly waiting to commune with Dave and the legions.
Let me further point out, though, that Gomez, from England, is a terrific pop-rock band (with some jam cred), one that turns out grabby hooks, features two distinctive lead vocalists and ace musicianship.
So go to see Dave, by all means — you will anyway — but instead of pounding that last beer in the parking lot, head in and see Gomez.
Dave Matthews Band w/Gomez, Wed., July 9, 7 p.m., Ford Amphitheatre, Tampa. $75, $67.50 reserved seats; $40 lawn. Livenation.com. —WT
Here’s what Ron wrote (with some reply commentary from me in bold):
I just read your preview for Dave Matthews Band this week. And in a most sincere, professional and mature manner I’d like to remark that you are, indeed, a dumb ass. (Good start.)
It appears to me that you have simply labeled DMB by what is played over the radio (don’t listen to much radio) … no doubt an extremely shallow way for someone who reviews musical acts to behave (not to mention undoubtedly indicative of your prowess as a journalist, real professional [thank you ... oops, sarcasm]).
If you, like a real editor should, took some time to lower your nose from the sky and listen beyond the “hits” you might find that there is much more depth and fine musical craftsmanship (you might want to look that word up, Scooter [who's Scooter?]), than what the radio allows us.
Lyrically, Dave is unmatched in this generation or “artists.” Now, I’d ask you to find that out for yourself but that may take some reading, listening, and (gasp) thinking, 3 things you’ve shown by your shallow writing (in this and many other articles) you don’t practice a whole lot of.
As a guitarist, no fan of DMB would say that Dave is today’s Jimi Hendrix (you got THAT right) or on the same level with Tim Reynolds (do you know who that is? [Nope.] or does it span far beyond your range of sappy pop-emo that you adore? [Not a fan of pop-emo.]).
However, Dave is not “a substandard talent.” (Is too.) Please, in between writing music reviews with a 3rd grade (6th grade, at least) vocabulary, pick up a guitar and learn how to play some of Dave’s guitar lyrics (What are guitar lyrics?). If you ever do, please call Dave a “substandard talent” then. (I already have, don’t need to again.)
I AM a musician and one of the millions of DMB’s fans. I respect the group as both a musician and a lover of music. How you could even compare Gomez to DMB is absurd.
Keep in mind there Bubba (Who’s Bubba?), that DMB has managed to sell out most of their shows without having a billboard hit in years. Maybe Dave isn’t as attractive as one of the frontmen for Gomez (can’t remember what they look like, but I think Dave’s better looking) but he certainly plays better music. Oh, maybe THAT’S why you like Gomez. (Ahh, suggesting that I’m gay.)
Thanks for encouraging the garbage manufacturing machine that is pop-music and telling us to eat with our eyes! Enjoy life in the shallow end of the water! (Listen to Gomez. The band is not part of the garbage manufacturing machine.)
Yours, Ron Michael
Send to a friend:
July 7th, 2008 at 2:36 pm
That’s pretty funny right there, I don’t care who you are …
July 7th, 2008 at 2:55 pm
DMB sucks. I’d rather listen to Bob Schneider or someone that doesn’t put out the same record every time. Plus their tour bus dumped SHIT on people and that’s just RUDE!
July 7th, 2008 at 3:01 pm
wow, i don’t know where to begin…
“Lyrically, Dave is unmatched in this generation”
WTF? really? ever listen to pavement? the hold steady? the national? spoon?
DMB lyrics are on ladder rung above jewel.
but, all in all, that was pretty fucking funny.
July 7th, 2008 at 3:06 pm
sorry…
should have read “one ladder rung”
and good point joran, they did dump a load of shit on people, in chicago, i think. so once that happened, they covered all the bases of shit dumping. literally, figuratively, metaphorical, esoterically, subconsciously, unknowingly, intentionally… did i miss anything?
July 7th, 2008 at 3:24 pm
Wow. So much fun being self-righteous.. And what of those of us who enjoy the a DMB show, love the National, Bob Schneider, Ike Reilly, Joe Henry, The National, Bright Eyes, Cadence, C4RT, The Pixies, Morphine, Dropkick Murphy’s . . . I guess we’re not allowed in your club. Which is fine because it sounds like you’ve got way too much in the way of having fun.
peace.
July 7th, 2008 at 3:27 pm
Is it really that much fun being self-righteous? What of those of us who enjoy the a DMB show, love the National, Bob Schneider, Ike Reilly, Joe Henry, Bright Eyes, Cadence, C4RT, The Pixies, Morphine, Dropkick Murphy’s . . . I guess we’re not allowed in your club. Which is fine because it sounds like you’ve got too much attitude piled up in the way of having fun.
peace.
July 7th, 2008 at 3:42 pm
I don’t know, Joran. DMB may be bland jam banding, but its a whole lot better than the crap Mekka shovels out each month.
Then again, I guess that makes you even w/ DMB. You both dump $hit.
July 7th, 2008 at 3:59 pm
WOW! you’re right, Wade. These fans are rabid.
July 7th, 2008 at 4:04 pm
Oh! I nearly forgot! I’ve got a pair of VIP tickets sitting on my desk right now to the Dave Mathews show in question. It’s this Wednesday at Ford Amphitheatre.
I’m giving them away tomorrow (Tuesday). And you’ll have to come to the office and pick them up. If you want a chance to win them, all you have to do is text the word MIXTAPE to the number 50618.
Thanks for playing!
July 7th, 2008 at 4:26 pm
Joran: Read the byline, dude, this was Snider’s post. I’m actually going Wednesday to see Gomez and then party with roughly 15,000 coeds during DMB’s set. Good times.
July 7th, 2008 at 4:30 pm
Forgot to mention that, by and large, I agree with ES in regards to DMB. I saw ‘em open for the Rolling Stones in Miami in like 1997. Thought they (DMB) was OK. Rolling Stones rocked me to my balls, of course, because they always do, and always will, even when they’re all on life support, as opposed to just Keef.
July 7th, 2008 at 5:23 pm
In all serious, I was a massive, MASSIVE DMB hater for years. I couldn’t figure out how one band could attract equal parts frat rats and granolas and not have a riot at every show.
My wife is a big fan, or well, used to be. Or I guess is still a big fan of his older stuff. She hasn’t been too impressed with his last 2 or 3 albums.
I think there’s some good stuff though on his solo album, I liked the track he did on Blue Man Group’s The Complex quite a bit and pretty much that whole Dave/Tim Reynolds thing is quality.
My biggest gripe is in seeing him live. He’s a good showman, they all are really (Tinsley being my favorite), but no band deserves to give each member a 3-minute solo in every freaking song.
Ok, so I really don’t like any kind of jam band, but songs really need to have a beginning, middle and end. Just sayin’.
That version of All Along the Watchtower almost makes you want to run screaming. It needs a frakking intermission.
July 7th, 2008 at 6:13 pm
just because you listen to DMB and the bands i mentioned (all of whom are have far superior lyrics) doesn’t make DMB any better; it means that you have diverse taste in music, some of which some of us find crappy.
i’m sure if you scrolled through my ipod, you’d think something in there was no good; but you sure as hell won’t find DMB, O.A.R., SCI or any other trustifarian crap.
July 7th, 2008 at 6:26 pm
Live and let live people…if this writer has no taste in music its his lost.
I am a fan of DMB…have been to over 40 shows in 13 years…but am also a fan of Gomez (who by the way are signed on Dave’s label…ATO). Have seen them live.
They are just different. I wouldn’t say Gomez is anything like DMB. They are about catchy lyrics and tunes….DMB goes further than that. But, doesn’t make one worse than the other.
But, I know you can’t show me a band out there with a following like DMB and such amazing individual talent among all their members. They are unsurpassed.
But, Eric…get a grip…get down off your high horse, get educated about what you are talking about…or just go get F#$%ED!
Cheers!
July 7th, 2008 at 7:42 pm
If I know Eric, he’d probably rather get F#$%ED.
July 7th, 2008 at 8:23 pm
I like to get educated. And then get F#$%ED!(fucked). How is educating myself about Dave Matthews going to make me like it more? Educating myself means having to listen more, which means that I\\\’ll just dislike it more and run the chance of getting ill. Now the high horse part, I\\\’ll give you that.
July 7th, 2008 at 9:17 pm
gabe -I also l mentioned some very different bands from the ones you mentioned. The thing is, I don’t think it makes me better to find something on your ipod that I think is unlistenable (well, assuming it’s not Toby Keith.) Music has many purposes.
Does it crack me up when Matthews sings “movement of ja people?” Hell yeah. But I don’t ask that much of him. I read Dennis Lehane and Philip Roth. I come to them with very different expectations. Is DMB crap? No. Life is short, I don’t go listen to crap. Are they in need of a few new riffs? Yep. When they’ve got ‘em I might even catch another show. The thing that amuses me is this need to create cred. by exclusion. Maybe it’s the blog = spleen equation, don’t care.
Based on the rest of what you said you are probably a reasonably positive, fun, tasteful dude. The negativity just baffles me. Don’t like it, don’t listen.
July 7th, 2008 at 9:20 pm
ES
educated and fucked is definitely the way to go. Physical activity even helps the mental processes.
: )
July 7th, 2008 at 11:03 pm
DMB is a band that sells out numerous shows in some of the biggest venues across the US EVERY summer, even without a release of a new album.
Even though there may not be a new studio release the band is always working on new songs and they play them during the tour to road test them before taking them in the studio in most cases. When in the studio the songs are shortened for those guys who don’t like the solos, but those of us who love to see DMB perform these songs live and different night after night is what we live for. Dave is by far one of the best front men today because he gives the crowd what they expect EVERY SINGLE NIGHT! The last two shows I saw him bust into a funky dance during Cornbread which was simply hilarious because he didn’t take anything serious because him and all the guys on the stage are having fun doing what they enjoy best, playing music and entertaining their die hard loyal fans such as myself.
If you would go to more than one show you will realize that unlike some of these other bands who only have 1 album worth of material to work with that these guys could play 5+ nights in a row and you would never hear the same song twice, but if you did it would be arranged in a different manner. I just came back from seeing the band on 7/1, 7/2 and 7/4 and even without LeRoi Moore the band was still able to impress me. The surprises this year included a cover of Peter Gabriel’s Sledgehammer, which was excellent, then there was also the return of #41 (my personal fav) and Granny (another old song which hasn’t been played in a long time). The biggest surprise for me was on 7/4 when the first song of the encore was Hey Hey My My (Into the Black) and Neil Young would have also given props to the band for such a kick ass version of the song.
All I can say is that if you don’t like the band, that is fine by me, it really is, but you really can’t judge a band when you are not open minded to real musicianship these guys do every night. ALL of the guys in this band are real musicians, these guys are not some studio band that can simply record a track and lip sing, these guys go out every night and play every note live and they never miss a beat, well I take that back, I have seen even Dave miss lyrics during Satellite in Charlotte this year, but that is what makes them special, they aren’t perfect, but they never claim to be. These guys play music because it is something that they genuinely enjoy doing.
How is that response?
Thanks,
Chris Slaughter
http://www.myspace.com/dmbfans
July 7th, 2008 at 11:25 pm
how you say … long-winded?
July 8th, 2008 at 1:10 am
chris,
i like going to see bands and getting something i don’t expect, and it seems that you do to, or maybe you don’t… you contradict yrself.
you say that dave “gives the crowd what they expect EVERY SINGLE NIGHT!” but then you say “these guys could play 5+ nights in a row and you would never hear the same song twice, but if you did it would be arranged in a different manner.”
which is it? is DMB static or fluid? get yr shit straight before you chime in. yr point would be much more valid if you weren’t talking circles around yrself.
i also feel that i can call out and band (granted, it’s only my opinion) for what i believe to be suckiness. i am (as you put it) “open minded to real musicianship”. i’ve been playing music of all kinds for almost 23 years. i, for the most part, know my shit.
July 8th, 2008 at 1:23 am
juniper,
there is no toby on my ipod.
i’m just being an asshole blogger today because i feel like it. maybe i’ll be nicer tomorrow. it’s monday after a long weekend where lots of booze was consumed. opinions are like assholes, and my opinions stink today. cheers!
July 8th, 2008 at 7:03 am
Gabe,
Actually I do not contradict myself because. DMB always gives a solid performance every night, but the fans are always excited because we don’t know what the set list will be that night…will there be a new cover that we hadn’t heard before? Will they play your favorite song? You never know what to expect, except that no matter what they play they do it with 110% effort each night.
As for you Gabe, there is no hope, I’m not going to change your mind and you are not going to change mine. I know what I enjoy listening to and you know what you enjoy (I’m suspecting that you are probably still excited about the New Kids on the Block reuniting for a tour this summer) but in the end we will agree to disagree.
July 8th, 2008 at 9:22 am
I really don\\\’t understand the DMB haters at all. Have you seen the band live? Because seeing them live is totally different than popping in one of their studio cds. Their singles happen to be some of their worst music. They are the songs that are the most radio friendly and attract the stupid frat boys and slutty teenage girls to the show. You know, those ones who say \\
July 8th, 2008 at 9:26 am
Umm, yeah I don’t know what happend to the rest of my comment but it contines:
“OHHHH, I love DAVE” and then proceed to get wasted before the show, not even remembering which song they played. The rest of us go because we love the music. We love to expect the unexpected. We love the jams. We love the unreleased songs. We love the new spins on old studio songs. I saw them 8 times in June and have a lot more lined up for the rest of the year. I’ve been going to shows ever year since 1999, and I never get tired of it. And yes, I do listen to other music (not the radio though, blah.)
I will say I can’t stand when people refer to the band as Dave Matthews. Don’t forget about the Band part . . . those talented guys up on stage standing just behind Dave.
Also, if the original blogger has never heard of Tim Reynolds, he really must check out a show this tour as Tim is touring with the band all year. He’s amazing and gives the band a whole new sound.
July 8th, 2008 at 10:34 am
Let me preface this by saying that I am not into DMB, not even a little tiny bit. The band’s fanbase is generally annoying, DM sounds like he’s singing with a mouthful of cotton, and the music itself just doesn’t do it for me. I would call DMB substandard in that they appeal to a lower common denominator — it’s jam music for the average man.
I’m not trying to talk shit about the people who like DMB. Plenty of folks have good musical taste and like DMB — I know, I’m friends with several. I don’t judge them because of what they like. Music touches different people for differrent reasons, and you and I dont necessarily have to understand why someone likes DMB, or SCI, or any other band that “sucks” (collective words, not my own). Usually, if someone tells me they’re into [insert band I don't like here], I try to act like I understand where they’re coming from even if I think they have no idea what they’re talking about, which is usually the case.
Gabe — being a musician doesn’t make you an expert on music, it just makes you THINK you’re an expert. ;-)
July 8th, 2008 at 10:45 am
So much to say, so much to say, so much to say, so much to say …
July 8th, 2008 at 11:00 am
oh, i’m so excited about NKOTB. they’re actually playing tampa on my birthday! i’ve been waiting for years to see jordan, joey, skippy, doe-eyes, and cute ass in tight jeans again. it’ll be the best birthday ever! OMG!
i think to cleanse myself from that, i’m gonna put on my board recording of My Bloody Valentine’s first show in 15-some-odd years.
oh man, my opinions are gonna stink again today, sorry.
July 8th, 2008 at 12:20 pm
Joran: you stay authentic with your 3 fans.
July 8th, 2008 at 1:34 pm
is this real? now i am a huge dmb fan, as big as they come.
i even took a step back to look at this objectively.. the original article is, well, not good journalism or musical advice.
a) you can’t attack fans of a band and then ask them to watch another band dummy. bad journalism.
b) gomez is not even close to as talented musically as dmb. i respect that you don’t like dmb, i totally understand. what i don’t get is how you can honestly believe they are less talented than gomez. bad musical advice.
c) you don’t know what you are talking about. you have to know SOMETHING about that it is which you are attacking. you don’t know who tim reynolds is? you didn’t research anything about the band to write this. uneducated journalism
July 8th, 2008 at 3:24 pm
ok, so i watched some tim reynolds stuff on youtube. sure, the guy can “play”, but i really felt as if i was watching nigel tufnel.
y’all should watch this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcjAy3VtMVU
nels cline covering john coltrane is where it’s at!
July 8th, 2008 at 5:42 pm
Now my guitar lyrics gentle weeps.
July 8th, 2008 at 5:56 pm
This blog should now officially be called Guitar Lyrics.
July 8th, 2008 at 6:00 pm
After watching that I want to shoot myself in the head. Why is it that guys that think good guitarist must play as fast as they can and it rocks? If you want to see a talented guy that used all of the guitar then watch this guy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ddn4MGaS3N4
July 9th, 2008 at 12:40 am
Gomez is awesome!…. So is DMB!
some fans = an embarrassment.
July 10th, 2008 at 3:34 pm
This is for Joren and Gabe. It was a bus driver who dumped waste over a bridge, not the band. Get that straight. Next to Jack Johnson, these is not a greener tour out there. And sub par musicians?? Are u joking? There are bands with better drums, guitars and basses, horns, violins and lyrics even close to them? Where? Where Joran and Gabe, Where?????
July 10th, 2008 at 4:45 pm
ok, bands that i THINK are better than DMB…
Afghan Whigs
Arcade Fire
Bad Brains
Bobby Bare Jr
Bonnie “Prince” Billy
Broken Social Scene
Built To Spill
The Decemberists
Fugazi
The Geraldine Fibbers
The Hold Steady
The Magnetic Fields
Mission Of Burma
The National
Okkervil River
Oxford Collapse
Pavement
Radiohead
The Roots
Sonic Youth
Spoon
Sun Kil Moon
TV On the Radio
Yo La Tengo
…to name a few
July 10th, 2008 at 4:47 pm
oh, and don’t get me started on that effin’ hack jack johnson…
hack hack hack hack hack hack hack hack hack hack hack hack hack hack hack hack hack hack hack hack hack hack hack hack hack hack hack hack hack hack hack hack hack hack hack hack
hack hack hack hack hack hack hack hack hack hack hack hack hack hack hack hack hack hack hack hack hack hack hack hack hack hack hack hack hack hack hack hack hack hack hack hack
July 11th, 2008 at 12:07 am
sweet list of bands. they are all horrible. Radiohead? OK Computer is the most overrated album in the history of albums.Its F’ing brutal. Any of those bands are as talented as Dave Matthews Band, whatever man. And Jack Johnson is no good? How bout G.Love, Sublime, Slightly stoopid, Bob Marley? Do they all suck too?
July 11th, 2008 at 12:07 pm
scott,
“How bout G.Love”
- good, but dated
“Sublime”
- overrated, sorry the dude OD’d
“Slightly stoopid”
- lame
“Bob Marley”
- revolutionary, shouldn’t even be listed with the other 3 bands you named.
July 11th, 2008 at 12:27 pm
man, threads like this make me want to be a music critic, too. Nobody gets this up in arms over curbside recycling. Gee, maybe i’ll take up sports writing.
And I was totally with Scott ’til he mentioned Jack Johnson. Now I can’t take anything you say with a grain of salt.
July 11th, 2008 at 1:39 pm
Dear Alex Pickett,
If you want to be me like the music section, try bashing everything you write about.
Next time you write an article about recycling, be cooler than everyone else and talk about how shitty recycling is, and how you’re a moron if you do it.
Take a page from the Snider book and write it with an air of superiority you can’t back up with any real knowledge, and
I bet you’ll get some comments.
July 11th, 2008 at 2:26 pm
125-62-9178,
is that yr SS#? regardless, you need to grammar-check before you post, my friend. it is you who looks like the fool.
July 11th, 2008 at 3:31 pm
Gabe,
I need not grammar check to make my point, it is understood. Even by those like you, who want oh so bad to be cool. Tell us about some more sub-pop bands why don’t you?
And, please explain to those of us who don’t understand grammar why you choose to hyphenate the word grammar-check? Is it a permanent compound in your mind only?
July 11th, 2008 at 3:53 pm
Scott
KYS, your ears and brain are broke, loc. Even Dave acknowledges the genius of radiohead.
July 11th, 2008 at 4:35 pm
ok, i’m bored with this now. it’s been real fun baiting you obsessive DMB folks; like shooting fish in a barrel. ya’ll get yr panties in a wad so easily. don’t hit yrself in the head with a hacky sack over the weekend.
July 11th, 2008 at 5:53 pm
Parting is such sweet sorrow.
Take care of yrself.
July 11th, 2008 at 9:42 pm
Hey gabe, your band blows. I’d rather listen to 9 hours of DMB with my nails being pulled out by a set of pliers than hear your “Detergent” band. Maybe if you write enough nice comments on your blog, CL will give you a write up for your next Denny’s gig.
How’s that for baiting? :-)